I think it’s, I think of having it now four months down the line, I think it’s been a fantastic experience, I’ve not enjoyed every minute of it but on the whole it’s been incredibly positive and I’ve enjoyed it overall. There are really, it’s hard to start and there are times when it seems very hard to keep going and all I would say would be to get help and to keep going because at the end of the day you just feel this incredible feeling of satisfaction and achievement at having done it. I think it’s important to not feel like a failure when it is going wrong and, because, every woman’s different and every baby’s different and, and some people will just find it harder than others, and I think it’s also important to, to not listen to some of the kind of, you know, sort of expectations that you get from, from other health professionals. I found, you know, for example, my health visitors were very unhelpful, they kept saying, ‘Oh well you must breastfeed, of course you must breastfeed’ and, and not actually helping me learn to breastfeed but just making me feel that I ought to be doing it. And at the times when I was feeling it, when I was finding it quite hard to breastfeed and, and my baby wasn’t putting on weight, and I was looking for alternatives or just other ways in which I could supplement my breastfeeding I found them very unhelpful and you know they would say, ‘Oh you mustn’t ever give the baby formula that’s just entirely the wrong thing to do’ and I think in retrospect when I did top her up with formula, you know, it was exactly the right thing to do because I had to top her up so that shed continue to gain weight until I could get my breastfeeding back on track. So yeah be strong and don’t let yourself be cowed by people telling you that there is only breastfeeding and that’s the only way to do it ’cause there are other ways to help breastfeeding, I think you know such as expressing milk or giving a bit of formula occasionally, and theres nothing wrong with that, you just have to find out what works for you and then stick with it, and forget about what everybody else says really.

I was in this place and he comes along and he said, Hi, how are you? And I said, Oh, yeah, look, I have my baby. And he say, Oh very good. And then he looks at my hands and then he said, Did you, were you able to breastfeed? Like that. And I said, Hm, hm, no, not really, I had problems, it was really painful. He say, Hmm, so during the winter your hands get really cold and painful? And I said, Yeah, yeah, my fingers, I can’t move them and they get really purple. He was like, Hmm. That’s called Raynaud’s. And I say, OK. And yeah, it’s a circulatory problem – and it affects the tissue. And what happens is the blocked vessels don’t get enough blood and that causes pain. And that also happens, may happens, may be the reason why your breastfeeding was so painful to you. And it’s actually, he, the, it’s very, very painful. And I said, and he said, Unfortunately, it’s, it’s something that’s not been researched enough and not many people know and it would be wonderful if GPs knew more about it because there is some medicine that they can prescribe that you can, you can take while you’re breastfeeding that will help your circulatory issues and then it will make the experience more – less painful or bearable. Because my, and I could see the benefits completely because as much as there is people out there that choose not to breastfeed – my choice was to breastfeed but I was physically unable to do it.

And then I think it will be really, really helpful if future generations or, or the next generations of mums that go, who are suffering from the same as I do, can benefit from these information, or if the GPs know more about it. And then when a woman goes to see them they can say what it is, or if the midwives, the midwife are aware of these and they can help the mum if the choice, if the mum chooses to breastfeed.

They were both breastfed, yes, from the word go, although with my first child the experience was totally different than with my second child. The reason being my first child was delivered by c-section and he was in special care for ten days, and I did not have access to him for about three days so I was separated from him and therefore the breastfeeding experience was very different. I felt very distressed to be separated from him and I got very anxious about not bonding with him straightaway and therefore I was really, really eager to, you know, cuddle him and breastfeed him, and therefore I was advised to go and express very regularly as soon as I delivered and I did that, and in fact my breastmilk came very fast, it came in four days, which is excellent for after a c-section I’m told. And [son], my first child, was too tired, too sleepy to breastfeed so I was expressing and I was actually giving him my breastmilk through a tube to his stomach, so that was quite emotionally that was very difficult but after five days he had his first breastfeed and it was I think lasted about forty minutes and he knew exactly what to do and from then on it was not an easy ride but it was a wonderful experience [laughs]. So that’s, that’s, my first experience of breastfeeding. Second time I also had an emergency c-section but my child was delivered to me, to my chest, and breastfed right away I think about thirty-five minutes after delivery and he was with me all the time so that was very, very different. And also, I mean, it always amazes me how they know what to do, they know where it is and they just latch on and, they know [laughs], that’s quite awesome and, and amazing. So second time was very different.

I think after the c-sections I had the positioning for feeding was important, ’cause physically I was quite weak, I think, first time probably more both physically and emotionally and the feeding lying down was so much easier, because I could rest and I didn’t have to physically hold the baby which was really demanding on my body. I think breastfeeding is a very physical thing to do, not be, not only because you’re producing milk but physically holding the baby who was getting heavier and heavier, there is quite a big physical element to it and with a c-section, you have to wait a little bit longer before you can be more active.

What didn’t go smoothly was that I did get mastitis six or seven times.

So can you describe mastitis for me?

It usually started with a little red patch on my breast that would be kind of hot and, and a bit painful to the touch and then quite quickly I would develop a sort of flu like feeling, a fever and shivery and really feeling quite ghastly actually. And it would usually be when I was very tired, run down, it would, always seem to happen on a Friday evening or so when I’d had the week with the baby on my own and [partner] had been at work and also it was, I suppose related to the breast not draining very well sometimes, I seemed to have a lot of milk and the baby wasn’t very efficient at, at suckling even though wed sort of managed to get by.

So what did you do when you noticed these symptoms?

I went to bed really, I felt so horrible that’s all I could do and I think I took, ibuprofen or paracetamol or something to try and bring the fever thing down, and then just trying to get the baby to feed as much as possible off the breast which had the mastitis. And then when she wouldn’t I would express or if, or if shed already fed and was full I would express, I had a little hand pump and I remember sitting in the bath ’cause hot water was really helpful and putting a, a kind of hot flannel and, and it would sometimes come out that way, and sometimes I would see [pause] one of the things I found helpful was to sit in the bath and, and put a hot flannel on top of the breast and, and often just the warmth of the water would make the milk start to flow, and I remember kind of seeing it kind of swirling around in the water and knowing that it was coming out. And so, and oh, and sometimes I think I had a hot water bottle wrapped up in a cloth or something and put that on, and I did notice sometimes that I had like a little white blob on the nipple, which reading up about it seemed to be that that was sort of dried up milk that was blocking one of the, the holes, and sometimes if I could get that to kind of go then that would, that would relieve the blockage and then.

How did you get that to go?

Once, I’m sure this is probably not very good I popped it with a sterile needle that I’d burnt in a, in a flame, and then whoosh all this milk came out and it, and it went down. And I just think just a lot of expressing sometimes kind of helped them to, to pop as well. And I did also have antibiotics on occasions as well because sometimes it just wasn’t going with the kind of measures I was using at home.

So you didn’t always use the antibiotics?

The first, no I didn’t, I sometimes did and I sometimes didn’t.

How long did you leave it before you decided you needed antibiotics?

I usually left it about twenty-four hours or so I’d say.

So if you had no improvement within twenty-four hours’

Yeah.

‘you knew you needed antibiotics?

I think that’s what I was tending to do yeah. I mean I’ve actually had it with each baby in fact, all three of them, and for instance with the most recent baby I’ve had it three times in, about the space of, five or six weeks. And the first time I got through it with no antibiotics, the second time I did take the, some antibiotics because of, it wasn’t going after twenty-four hours, and then I was still on the course of antibiotics when I got it the following weekend, in a different

It was, it seemed quite obvious to me I had a lump in my breast visibly you could see it was a funny shape and there were little lumps under the surface, just like little peas, and then.

All in a row, or?

I can’t remember I think there were just odd ones here and there, I don’t really remember, and it just made sense to me that this was swollen up because there was a blockage so I did the thing where you, I ended up in this ridiculous position because the baby’s chin has to point to where the, the blockage is, and I ended up, he was lying flat on the bed and I had to go on all fours over him [laughs]. And I knew that I had got him in the right place because he fussed, and fussed, and fussed, he was obviously getting nothing out, but he kept at it and then he unblocked it and that night I took him and we co-slept, and I did feed him off both sides but I put him more on the side that had been blocked and it was fixed by the morning.

Did you know, was it sort of like an instant thing, ah that’s been relieved or was it just because hed fed so much you think that must have done it?

By the morning I knew that my breast was back to normal but there wasn’t a moment where I went, ‘Oh right that’s it’ I’m very lucky I can actually sleep when hes feeding, and once he got passed a certain age he was able to just pop on and off, on and off himself, so quite often I don’t really have any idea how long he was feeding for or what he was doing [laughs] or anything so it helps me catch up on my sleep.

Okay, did you do anything else for that blocked duct like massage or heat compresses or feeding in the bath or anything like that?

No I didn’t, I tried the chin positioning thing first and, I didn’t notice the blockage until bedtime and then I thought, ‘Well, you know, if this feeding all night doesn’t help then I can move on and try some other things.

Footnote Changing the relationship of the baby to his mother’s body will improve mastitis if it improves attachment and therefore milk removal.

So when I had her, when I had my first son I had really bad cracked nipples, I was all sore, luckily enough my mum came to stay with me but she couldn’t do anything because it was, it’s the first time shes seen something like that in my situation. I could remember there was a day I was breastfeeding my baby and I end up seeing blood come out of his mouth so I had to stop that one. I was so determined to give him breastmilk I didn’t want formula so I end up pumping one breast and leaving the other one untouched.

To rest?

To rest yes and I, because of the breastfeeding classes that I went, it was quite helpful so I remember she said if you have cracked or sore nipples you can put cabbage which I did.

The cabbage leaves?

Yes the cabbage leaves and even my mum was like really cabbage, I said yes she, I was told it gives you a bit of relief and it doesn’t dry up the, the nipples. I used the nipple cream but it was all in vain there was nothing, it wasn’t helping. I went to the GP they said because I’m breastfeeding they cannot give me any antibiotics I can only go on paracetamol that’s it. So I was pumping one breast and leaving the other one to rest which I could even say up to now it has an impact because one breast I have more milk than the other one because I think it’s psychology with the brain isn’t it that one needs it so let me give this one. Even now I can tell one has high milk and the other one has very little amount.

So I call the breastfeeding help group and they came, she tried helping me quite well, they were quite good but there was nothing she could do the nipple was so cracked it even like the nipple like split almost into two you could see the, it’s a horrendous experience I can’t even like. I was all in pain for two and a half months, I was in pain but I was so determined I wanted to carry on. My first child I gave him all through I didn’t even give no water until he was six months and then I put water and formula.

His Dad came and everyone, everyone came to say hello and everything, and it was really nice and I, it’s like I was breastfeeding and the midwife came, midwife came over and got really. And, yeah and then I was breastfeeding him and some of the midwives were saying, ‘Oh you should be bottle feeding and, you know, all this and ’cause weve got some, some of those midwives are not that supportive I have to admit. But and I didn’t wanted to hear it, I didn’t care, I just breastfed him continuously and afterwards they, the doctor said that he had a bit of jaundice, so we was in the incubator, he was in the incubator for a good six days and, also the doctor even told me not to breastfeed, the doctor told me to bottle feed otherwise the jaundice is going to take time for it to go. But I didn’t listen to them I didn’t care whenever he wanted a milk I just got him out, breastfed him and put him back, I got told off a few times mind you, I got told off, they told me I shouldn’t be doing that ’cause the more you take the baby out, the baby gets less what you call it?

Light.

Less light and the jaundice take time, I said, ‘It doesn’t I, I believe the more you breastfeed, breastfeed, the better he will get the quicker’ and I ignored them, I honestly ignored them as I was doing what I had to do and after a few four days, four, five days we were out the hospital. And he was absolutely fine and hes a healthy wonderful baby boy running around now [laughs], and I love him to bits.

So that period in the hospital, you were taking him out of the incubator?

Oh yeah.

How often?

Whenever he wanted it to be honest because he was only a few, two or three days old he was on demand feeding and whenever he wanted the milk I took him out, breastfed him, and when I knew he was satisfied after half an hour or so I put him back in again, so it’d probably be half an hour, I tried to give him a good half an hour to forty five minutes on both sides, then I at least I know for an hour hed be okay, then I’d take him out again same thing.

Did you sit there with him’

Oh yeah.

‘all day?

Yeah, yeah I was there basically they kept me in too, so I my bed was then his incubator was just next to me, he didn’t go to Special Care or anything, he was just next to me, yeah.

And he had colostrum?

Oh yes definitely.

You didn’t withhold breastfeeding

No.

‘at any stage?

No, no, no, no straightaway he got all the colostrum then the milk came in, then the hind milk and everything he got everything from day one, yeah which I felt I had to do, it was my, I felt it was my responsibility to, as a mother, to give what he, it’s for him ’cause in our religion it says it’s a God-given thing otherwise we wouldn’t be producing milk that’s why it’s important for the baby to have that.

Okay. When my baby was recovering from the meningitis I was putting him to the breast, it was all I ever wanted to do was be a breastfed Mum, but I was also expressing, but I felt he wasn’t able to empty my breasts and I felt that he could only take from them when they, when they were full and I felt he would fall off, I was actually sort of having to hold him, onto the breast and I was kind of limited on my use of the pump, they were kind of rationing me, I felt a bit like a naughty schoolchild every time I asked to use the pump, and I’d very proudly come back and say, ‘I’ve only expressed for three minutes’ and then I’d come back with like a hundred and eighty ml’s. So I had a really good supply going, finally when we were discharged I was told, ‘Just go home, be one-one with your baby, loads of skin-skin, feed on demand. And by that point I so wanted to believe them that I, that I kind of fell into the, into the fantasy, I went home and for five days I fed my baby day and night, he was on the breast for more than one in every two hours, and I didn’t mind anything in terms of sleep because I was breastfeeding and I was doing the right thing by him and I, I know with a normal healthy baby if they’re breastfeeding well it will sort itself out. On the Monday I went to [children’s hospital] where the surgeon looked in his mouth and realised that he had a sub-mucus cleft, the first thing I did when I went home was express and I found that I had no milk. My milk had gone. Basically my breasts had shut down because for the previous five days he was feeding but he wasn’t feeding, he wasn’t draining the breasts, and at, there in the hospital they were worried that I didn’t have belief in my breasts, because the truth is that if the baby’s normal and healthy then there will always be enough milk because it’s this natural bio-feedback loop, ‘The baby takes the mother makes’, but he wasn’t taking and so I wasn’t making and I’d stopped making and all that expressing I’d done before when I was being proud and not expressing for too long, I’d actually just been taking off the foremilk, leaving my breasts basically full or engorged enough to send the signals that there is no baby feeding from my breast, so my milk had gone. Now this is like the queen of expressing, had no milk and to [sighs], to be in the situation of, I mean it was utterly devastating, I was so angry, I was so, angry at them, but I was more angry at myself for believing them, because I would have expressed, the only reason I stopped expressing was they thought I was hung up on expressing and they thought there was no reason why I couldn’t be breastfeeding. I should have stuck to my guns and listened to my instincts more.

What did you do with that anger?

Channelled it into expressing [laughs]. It was a really, really hard time, there was a whole lot of milk that I had made at the hospital that was on it’s way to the milk bank, were talking litres, I had to haul it back here to the freezer and my job was to get my milk supply up again before that supply ran down. Now if I hadn’t done what I’d already done for my first son, theres no way I would have known that you can exclusively express long time, long term. Fine one thing, but you can relactate, but by this time I’d already done a fair amount of reading, I’d set up Express Yourself Bras, I understood a fair amount about expressing and I was in touch with this fantastic breast, breastfeeding or infant feeding advisor and researcher up in the north of England, [name], who’d done all the research over the benefit of double pumping. She was like my saviour [laughs] because she was on the end of the ‘phone to me, I knew in theory relactation was possible but I needed her help when milk didn’t flow. I mean I was talking, oh ten days earlier I’d been making a hundred and eighty ml’s in three minutes, I came

But the disappointment was huge and I think the disappointment, I can feel myself getting emotional about it now, but I think that obviously compounded a lot of the breastfeeding problems I had afterwards because I was probably slightly depressed, and although I didn’t want to acknowledge it, I think that’s probably a, another problem, not just with the breastfeeding problems it was addressing the whole fact that I didn’t have the delivery that I wanted, and also trying to be big and brave about it and saying, ‘Look hes here, hes healthy, for goodness sake that’s all that matters at the end of the day’ and then actually thinking, ‘Gosh I do feel slightly robbed that I didn’t have that experience and I, straightaway made the decision that I would want another child because not just because of wanting to expand our family but also that whole experience I had, I hadn’t had. So you do feel slightly guilty because you feel selfish about it, because here he is, hes healthy, hes happy, hes arrived safely, we should thank god for that, but, also thinking but it’s not how I wanted it to be, or it should be.

Do you want to explore that idea of depression a little bit more at this stage?

Yeah, I didn’t, I’ve only ever suffered once from depression and that was after my father died, with bereavement, but I think I didn’t acknowledge that I was, I’d, I wouldn’t say it was post natal depression as in the puerperal psychosis type thing, it wasn’t, it was just down, feeling down, feeling overwhelmed and I also think that perhaps with it being your first child slightly later in life, you know, you’re very in control of your career and suddenly life isn’t in control anymore, you don’t know what it’s going to be like, nobody can tell you what it’s going to be like to have a baby, suddenly you come home with this newborn, little thing, that just completely needs you and you sit there and you think, ‘Well what am I going to do next? What do you do next?’ so the overall, overwhelming feeling of responsibility and then coupled with the fact that the breastfeeding was just declining and it looked like, ‘Oh my goodness don’t say that (a) I haven’t been able to have a normal delivery and now (b) I’m going to end up having to put him on the bottle, it just made me feel so low.

What about fatigue did that add to that as well?

I was tired a lot, and I think I remember being in the kitchen one night and I just said to my husband, ‘Do you know I don’t know if I love him’ and that was the most dark I suppose it got, but I think I, my husband helped me realise, ‘Look you’re tired, you’re, you know, you need to sit down, have something to eat, you know’ and I was expressing at the time as well and that was the other problem that, you know, my nipples were so sore and they were cracked, they were bleeding, I was double expressing, I didn’t seem to be able to get much off, so the worry of constantly thinking, ‘Hes hungry all the time I’m not getting enough off, it was just, you know, it was draining, draining, and when you’re tired you can’t think straight so, you know, it’s a hard cycle to get out of really, you know, something has to change, for in order for you to get some rest, to be able to reassess the situation and continue.

You’re looking back at it now; at the time did you think to yourself I might be depressed?

No not really I think I probably put it more down to being overwhelmed with having a newborn at home and the fact that things weren’t going well with the breastfeeding, and I knew that I was going to be, while, whilst these problems were happening to me, I knew that I was the type of character that gets very, very disappointed if things don’t go righ

Can you tell me what you mean by tongue tied?

Tongue ties where they have an extra the flap of skin goes to the end of the tongue preventing them to be able to suckle properly also in later life that can cause a lisp, and for him not to be able to lick, so he couldn’t poke his tongue out, like that it was held back.

How long did it take you to pick that up?

I didn’t, they picked that up in the hospital cause, the second, he was two days old, no he was, he was just over a day old and I was trying, having problems getting him latched on and the care assistant actually picked up that that was what was happening why I couldn’t get him latched on, and then the next day they came and they cut that in the hospital.

So could you see that his, he couldn’t poke his tongue out?

Once they’d pointed it out yes, his tongue rather than being pointed looked like a heart shape that was drawn in at the middle, so once they pointed it out it was quite obvious and he had quite a bad tongue tie as well, so yeah they cut that at two days old.

Can you explain what that meant?

They basically, they pulled his tongue and then theres this skin underneath, they snipped it, and the procedure took seconds, he cried but he was fine, I sort of held him and he was fine, he forgot about it after a minute if wed not had it done so young as they get older it’s more of a complicated procedure and I believe that if you wait until after they’re six months they have to have general anaesthetic and all sorts so we felt it was better to have it done.

So no anaesthetic?

No anaesthetic they just snipped it.

Any bleeding?

It bled, I mean a miniscule amount, the doctor she held some padding to it, to the area and there was a little blood on it when she pulled it away, and then she gave it, him to me and I put him to my breast and he was fine and that was that. And then it looked like he just had a little ulcer there afterwards and it healed fine, so, you know [laughs].

So you put him to your breast?

Yeah.

And?

It didn’t, it still didn’t come naturally even though hed had his cut, his tongue tie cut very young it’s , can still cause massive problems for babies breastfeeding and I assume maybe bottle fed babies but, so he, he never suckled right, he didn’t latch on fully as well, there was always a gap, there was no proper seal made, if you know what I mean, around the, the nipple.

(Footnote see Topic Summary 7′ sore nipples).

Footnote Minor brief pain at the beginning of a breastfeed in the first few days is fairly common. However, constant, long-lasting pain of the burning or itching kind or pain after or between breastfeeds is not normal and requires attention.

I had a fantastic birth and in the delivery suite he just took to it and fed by himself and I didn’t really think back in terms of my first child at all but for the first few months he seemed to be feeding well, he was gaining weight well, we didn’t really have any particular problems until he was about three months old and then we hit quite a struggle point. I’d been on holiday in a hot country and I think I had an overflow of milk, and instead of feeding a lot which is what I expected him to do in a hot country he seemed to pull away and didn’t want to feed very much, and that went on for a couple of weeks, and to the point where he was really struggling with me, and it was quite upsetting trying to feed him. And I went into the local breastfeeding clinic, theres a fantastic clinic in the local hospital, twice a week.

That was once you were home?

Once I was back home from holiday yeah. And I went in there, and the lady in there said, ‘Oh he looks like hes close to breast rejection’ and I was quite panicked.

How did that make you feel?

Yeah quite panicky, particularly because he was refusing a bottle as well, and I’d tried expressing milk and giving him in a bottle and he wouldn’t take that at all by that age, he did early on, he took some expressed milk early on, but by that age he was rejecting everything. So I was very nervous that, you know, I was going to have a real problem with feeding him at all.

How old was he by then?

He was about twelve weeks, fourteen weeks old maybe when I went to the clinic. And they were fantastic with me they said that, you know, there was a problem with the way hed been latching on and in fact until that point hed been almost sucking up the nipple by himself without really actively latching onto the, to the breast and he didn’t have the same control of the milk flow, and they said that they thought it was really that, that he wasn’t able to slow the milk down enough, and he needed to use his chin a bit more when I was feeding him, and it took a good two or three weeks of hard work to, to get it right again but from then on he was fine.

What sort of things did you do to entice him back to the breast?

I guess if he was reluctant I didn’t push it I began to recognise that there were times when hed been feeding before when it was really for comfort not for hunger, and so I let those times pass and, and really just waited till he was hungry, and I was very careful about the way I positioned myself, I probably used more cushions at that stage, ’cause you get a bit lazy with using cushions with one child I think and I used to just feed him anywhere and everywhere on my lap and, support him with my arms and, and by that stage my arms were quite tired as well so, I used to then be very careful about how I sat and used good support from the cushions. And was very careful about how I positioned his head, but even if I didn’t think I was really latching him well, at least his chin was always on the breast then and, and he was, seemed much happier with it, within a week or two weeks he was fine.

Did you try feeding him in his sleep or anything like that to get him to latch on?

Not really no, he, I mean we kept the feeding patterns the same really and then he just took to it again, I think the help I had from the Breastfeeding Clinic was fantastic and, and it’s run by two very, very knowledgeable ladies here, and they really tell you exactly what you’re meant to try and do even if it doesn’t always work. I went back two or three times and, an