We let off some balloons on his due date. So on his due date I think maybe I was like seven – seven weeks pregnant. So we let off some balloons for him. And then on his actual day that he was born, the 30th of January. So I think a couple of days after he was born, I went on this 4Louis website. And I bought a memory box, in his – in his memory, for someone else to have.

And I think every year – I did again this year, I bought a memory box. And every year, I’m going to buy a memory box on his birthday. In his name, for someone else.

Michelle: I think for me it’s about validating your experience, however that feels right for you.

Iain: Mmm.

Michelle: And there is no right or wrong.

Iain: Mmm.

Michelle: I think grief is a very unique experience. It comes at different stages, so. You know, if it – if it doesn’t hit you on the bum in three months, it might in a year, and that’s okay. To be really kind to yourself around the due date, and around anniversaries. And the build-up to those can sometimes be worse than when you get there.

Iain: Mmm.

Michelle: Definitely to go to support groups. Or to find online forums. But at the stage when you feel ready. So, some people feel ready immediately, some people don’t want to do that. So really I think for me it’s just about knowing it’s unique, knowing that whatever you choose is okay. And that whatever stage of loss you’ve gone through, you have the right to validate that as a life. And no one else is going to probably give you that right, so you’ve got to find that right for yourself. And, yeah. To do what needs to be done for yourself. And is so individual. Some people want to mark the baby, name the baby – some people don’t. And not to feel guilty if you choose something different to what now is expected.

Michelle: You know, I think – you know – sometimes we go the other way, and say you have to light a candle, you have to – you know – name the child, you have to plant the tree, you have to put an extra decoration on the Christmas tree.

Iain: Mmm.

Michelle: And it’s like well no, you don’t, actually. If for you, the best thing to do is just lay down and walk away, that’s – that’s a right as well, so.

Yes, there’s a place to offer empathy, and a place to be heard, but also it really, really is an individual thing. So I don’t have like anything to say that says, you know, do what we did, or anything like that. It’s just more about do what you need to do to get through it.

I think a big turning point was when we did a 5k fun run, sort of thing. Where we raised money for Sands. I think that must have been 2015. The summer of 2015. So that was – because [son’s name] was about a year old then. So it was about two years later.

And that to me, I felt for the first time that I could say that something good had come from it. Because we raised about £1,000. So I could finally say, well – Up until that point, it was like that there was nothing, nothing positive to say about the situation. And I think after that, I think after that I felt differently. That was almost like – I was able to move on.

Because up until then it was like I was going out running every couple of days, and the whole reason I was doing it, was sort of always there at the forefront of my mind, and. Kirsty had been in contact with Sands, and we were getting t-shirts, and sort of trying to raise money about it. And so it, it was – it was almost like it was a constant daily reminder about it. And, and that to me – That for me sort of put – it was a moment where I was able to say ‘okay, I think I – I think I’m able to, to move on from this.

Before I came home, there was – they called a social worker, and she came and had a chat with me, telling me how I was going to feel, and all this sort of thing. Which I can remember – even now, I can remember just sitting there thinking ‘you don’t know what you’re talking about, so don’t tell me how I’m going to feel.

But she did have a number of somebody who was starting a miscarriage group in the local area. So she gave me that. And probably a couple of weeks later I did give that a call.

Was that helpful?

Yes, yeah. It was really – it was really good. It was over in [town]. And there was probably five or six of us, all at different stages of pregnancy. And it wasn’t – the conversation wasn’t always about the loss of the baby, it was just nice to just sit with people that you know had been through it. So we’d be talking about the TV programmes and all this sort of thing, but it just – if you wanted to have a little cry about something, you knew that they could understand a bit more, and you didn’t get the sort of ‘well it’s been this long now, you shouldn’t be like upset any more’, etc.

Mmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

So was that in someone’s house, or?

Yes. Yeah, we used to take turns. Went to her house. When she moved, I took over for a while. And now I’m just a telephone contact. Because everybody then went on to have children.

But you’re still involved?

Yeah. Yeah, I’m still a telephone contact for the Miscarriage Association.

Right. And what does that involve?

If somebody’s rung up the main office, and they’ll give them a local number of somebody that they can talk to. Mmm.

Okay. And do you get regular calls?

Not as many now, no. Because I think where you’ve got the internet, you can find out a lot more on there. You know, the Miscarriage Association has got their website. And there’s stuff on there that – you know – can help you.

Mmm. Mmm.

So I’ve not had a call for quite a while.