As a Christian I believe theres got to be a reason behind everything and I don’t know, I don’t know, I haven’t got to the bottom of that yet, and it may be that I won’t. I thought originally that possibly I was, I was going to be used to help other fellow sufferers. Well, I started off on that track, but when it’ sort of had to fall off. I don’t know, I haven’t yet found the reason for me having the depression, but I don’t fret over it, I think there has to be a reason.

But yes, my, my Christian faith, which I’ve had for, you know well, since baptism of it in practise. It has come into play more when things have been black with depression and all the other unhappinesses. And it’s been a great source of solace because I believe personally that the love of God is there and unchangeable and never goes away no matter what I do. He made me like this. He knew what he was doing. He made me and he loves me. I get myself into scrapes. Other people get me into scrapes but at the end of the day, he is always there.

And to take that one stage further although as a gay man the Catholic Church isn’t, is not in favour of homosexuality and views it with some rancour, and views it as a sin… I have never ever had condemnation direct or implicit from a priest or any congregation in any Catholic Church I have ever worshipped in. Far from it, one priest in particular, no in fact all of them in their very different ways from young men to, to much older men, have all of them in their ways been very loving and caring and supportive both to me and my partner through the bad times as well as the good. And yes, they’ve been very loving and very caring in the ways that I think our Lord would have expected. And the cant and hypocrisy of those who condemn, who condemn the sinner out of hand particularly some fundamental religious groups, I think is just appalling.

I was actually a Christian, I’m not a Christian any more, I sort of went through a crisis of faith a few years afterwards which, again is quite, is quite relevant, I think quite relevant to depression.

In what sense?

Well, Christianity has got some quite powerful symbols in it about redemption and death and somebody dying for your sins. And quite a strong feeling of sin, actually, of a feeling of blame or some, whether you can use the word ‘stigma’ in that context that attaches to somebody who’s, who’s somehow failed. But it also, you know, it’s got a positive aspect to it as well, it’s got the idea that one should be able to be guided by Gods will if one reflects on it and reads on it and such like. And some people are supposed to be called by God, but I never felt that way you know, and I never really had this so-called personal relationship with Jesus that many, you know fervent Christians talk about.

I mean I had a conflict in my mind between science, which I felt I understood pretty well, and the Bible, and I was always trying to reconcile them. This is something I was doing, you know even as a kid, you know from the age of 11. And from the age of 11 and, ultimately, it went down to the side of being a heathen, and not really worrying about being damned, because I don’t even believe in things like sin any more. I find them to be very. to be a very exacting kind of religion’

I think there are a lot of things we actually don’t understand, and up to a point, but probably in depression, the depths of depression, you can’t really do anything about. But prayer does help, and believing that the holy spirit will sustain… that God will not allow us to suffer too much, and will give us the strength to cope. It is often rubbished, but there again, that’s what I believe. I have been sustained. It doesn’t mean I’ve never thought of suicide in the real pits… in the 60’s, in the 1960’s I suppose, there were times when, “I just don’t want to be here anymore, this is so incredibly painful, my life is such a mess… I feel a wreck, I am so unhappy, I am so miserable… What else can there be…” This is particularly in a period of depression that just went on and on and on. I didn’t have faith then, I didn’t even attempt to… I didn’t attempt suicide, it doesn’t mean to say I didn’t think about it.

How has prayer helped, well I guess that as I say, the Lord had a purpose behind me having depression, and I was content. It didn’t make sense to me because, well it just didn’t make sense to me, but I had to believe that was it. I used a psalm, Psalm 100, when I was going through the worst of it.

Well you’d have to look it up in the Bible, but part of it says the Lord is good, his mercy is everlasting, and his truth endures to all generations. And I had to believe you know, there was always. there was always something to give praise, for and give thanks for, because you get exceedingly gloomy [laughs]’ you’re not very good company when you’re in the depths. But I had to believe that, and that may. I think that it helped.

I don’t know, I can’t say if I’d have been any different without those beliefs. Certainly it kept me and the wifes marriage together, I believe that. So I give thanks for that.

Although saying like you know never give up that is one thing I’ve really, really learned. You can nay, theres never, never, for nobody a magic pill. People said that to me for years and years. Ah there is no magic pill you need to just do this and you need to just do that. But I can see that now, there is no magic pill, but I thought I’m no weak. I am strong enough to [laugh]. And I don’t go to church, but you see in the last few months I’ve never spoken with God so much in my life. I said I think this man is giving me the strength to carry on for what I am coming through. I said to him am I going to get peace in life?

I mean, even though I didn’t feel it (prayer) was doing me any good. And an image I did use, and I’ve used since to help other people, is of the iceberg in the sun. That although I wasn’t aware that any melting was about to take place, or going to take place, of the iceberg of depression. An iceberg will be melting in the sun, and there will come a point when it’s obvious and it’s visible. And that’s what I held on to, that there would come a point when I would begin to feel less depressed.

Yeah, he (Jesus) went through that. You know, he had that sense of feeling completely at the bottom. And it says he actually, his sweat was like drops of blood, and I know that when people are… It is a recognised phenomenon isn’t it when people are extremely anxious the… when they sweat the capillaries can actually burst in their skin, and they can actually sweat blood. So that, you know, these things can happen, and I just thought then you know if he… if he was anxious and depressed, it’s ok for me to be as well. You know. And that was good.