It’s been really good. I mean obviously I go clubbing, as a young adult. I have been clubbing once or twice, and you do meet people that look at you a bit strangely because you look different from what, you know, normal people would look like without a cleft palate. But when you’re out people don’t really look… and think of me any different. I mean they might look at me and give me a few strange looks, but they won’t treat me any differently.

Compared to what it was like when I was at primary school, people, I’ve found older people are more accepting of it.

Yeah.

It’s like young children are. I think it’s that, that middle ground: theres always that, you know, not sure of what it is. But I’ve found older, older people have actually come up to me and asked me what I’ve got and how I deal with it.

Are you open to that approach? Are you happy to be asked and?

Yeah I mean I’d rather they asked me than take the mick out of me. So if… I think, I think most of the reason why they take the mick is because they’re ignorant of it; they don’t know what it is like in my experience anyway. And once I’ve explained what I’ve got, that I’m just the same as anyone else and, you know, I just look a bit differently, they seem to accept that. And then obviously working as what I do, wanting to be in a primary school,

I have done placements in other schools and I have… had… them, other teachers even ask me questions about what I go through. And people just seem to… I’ve found other people seem more accepting of it once they understand what it is. And they’re more adult about it by just coming up and asking me, rather than considering to what I was like at primary school and secondary school having people take the mick. I think there is that difference, the maturity there.

And on the positive side as well, I’d say I’ve got a really good support system with my family and friends, and they’ve always stuck up for me and been there to help me when I’ve struggled sometimes. And… I suppose that’s a big positive, is having the, the great support system I do.

Yeah sure. And I was just wondering if you had any strategies for other young people, anything you wanted to express or?

I mainly just am open with them, and if they have questions, like again with that young girl who had a cleft palate and hare lip, I’m just… I told her to be very open, and not to take it all to heart when people do take the mick, because most of the time it is out of ignorance: they don’t know what you have.

Yeah sure.

So… I would say to other people who have got a cleft palate and who aren’t sure what to do, I would say to just be very open and honest and not take anything to heart if people do pick on them. Because obviously, as long as you’re OK with how you look, that’s really what matters.

So you left school when you were 18 or?

I was 17.

So did you go straight on to university after doing A Levels.

No I took a year out.

Sorry?

I took a year out.

OK what did you do in your year out?

I just worked in a restaurant for a year which was

So did you work in the caring field or something different?

No, no I… it was kind of a last minute decision to take a year out, and it was just kind of just a regular job in a restaurant, nothing

OK a restaurant yeah.

Yeah but

And was that a situation which boosted your confidence?

Yeah, yeah.

Because obviously in a restaurant you’re meeting a lot of people and

Yeah, no, definitely, it was definitely beneficial and

Would you say it was a confidence boost?

Yeah it was in terms of kind of coming out your shell a wee bit more, kind of going from school where everything about school was… remember about being bullied, and not being happy as I was meant to be, and to then kind of going somewhere new and meeting new people, and nobody knows anything about that, and you don’t really have any memories of, like any bad memories, no. It was it was good to go somewhere where people didn’t point and ask questions.

So was that in town or?

Yeah, yeah.

So you did that for a year and then

Yeah.

and then applied for university?

No, no I already had a place.

Oh you already had a place, yeah?

Yeah so then just left the job to go to university.

So how would you compare university life with school life?

Oh completely the opposite end, like chalk and cheese, like two different. Obviously with the… the degree I’m in people like… people are more able to understand and people will be different. And, no, there was… I mean thered be a few incidences of just people being just life, people being, you know, kind of comment on the way you look, or comment on the way you speak. But, yeah, you just brush it off.

That’s nice. OK so you’ve done your first year at university.

Yeah.

So how does that feel to have that, to sort of be on that trajectory now?

Yeah it’s certainly a sense of achievement and… it’s good to… kind of… yeah it’s a sense of achievement…to know that you wanted to go somewhere and you were like… and you achieved it when people didn’t think you would.

When you say people didn’t think you would’ who do you refer to?

Oh just like from school, you know.

Is it peers or teachers?

Peers.

Or both?

Oh both I suppose. I suppose when… kind of from school where people just kind of thought that she was bullied you know, Shes in her shell, shes got no self-esteem, no confidence; shell not get anywhere. And then kind of working your way up and proving the people wrong, so yeah.

An all-girls school is… it can be quite difficult.

But… it’s the school I wanted to go to: my friends were going there, both my sisters had been there.

OK hmm.

So, yeah, there wasn’t really a lot of option.

OK but it’s what you wanted at the time?

Yeah, yeah.

And is there anything particularly difficult about going to an all-girls school?

I think…

Or particularly positive?

Girls, girls are just very like they’re very self-conscious and very judgemental as teenagers. And… you know, I definitely picked up on that. I’m not saying it would have been easier if boys were around, because I don’t… I haven’t had that experience.

Yeah.

…But I thin… having been in a mixed primary and middle school it… you know, the balance is better. But, yeah… all-girls school

That’s how it was?

that’s how it was [laughs].

That’s your experience was and that’s what you know, yeah.

Yeah.

OK. So at what point did you leave school?

I left school at 16 after my GCSEs.

OK and what happened next?

I did a music course at college.

OK what was that like?

I loved that. That was kind of… the making of my confidence and

OK.

..you know, I really kind of found myself there. And it was just college is a much more accepting environment, and I really felt that from the people on the course and everything else. So that’s really good… memories for me, really good experience.

And was that music theory or music technology or a bit of both or?

It’s… so it’s music on the theory and then the practical side, so every couple of weeks wed perform to each other.

Oh OK.

And you know, wed practise all the time… but yeah.

And where did you do that, where was that?

That was in [place], and that’s like half an hour away.

Oh yeah I think we came through that on the train, yeah.

Yeah.

OK so it’s still quite local to you?

Yeah, yeah.

And familiar to you, yeah?

Yeah.

And did you make some friends there as well?

Yeah I mean I didn’t know anyone there

OK.

so it was… you know, I was [laughs] terrified.

Were you? Yeah.

But… I got there and within a few days, you know, it was just so laid back that you couldn’t get on… not get on with people, do you know what I mean? Because… yeah.

Yeah so you met like-minded people?

Yeah.

I’ve never had a very big circle of friends. I’ve always been that kind of person who I have very, a few sort of very, very close friends. I did have experiences at school where I thought people who were my friends turned out that they weren’t. Because I went to an all-girls school, and actually I found that girls were worse than boys, because they can be incredibly catty and they can be incredibly cruel what they say.

Was this at primary school, was this an all-girls?

Primary school and secondary school I went to all girls.

Hmm OK.

And it wasn’t until I actually got to uni that I actually started socialising with boys again, and that was a… that was an experience. But when you get to university people don’t really care, because theres so many different, you know, groups of people that, you know, they don’t see it, they don’t see the cleft, they don’t see anything, they just see you.

Where is this, sorry, at?

At university yeah.

So you found university distinctly different to school, in terms of socialisation?

Absolutely. I was quite… I was nervous about university because I didn’t actually know what to expect. But literally within the first couple of days I’d sort of settled in and was absolutely fine. Because I found that there were quite a few girls who had never been away from school

OK yeah.

and I could help out with that, because I went to boarding school.

OK yeah.

And that, you know, I could help them with their homesickness and things like that. So that sort of helped me.

Kendal: Well I don’t know, I think I had the perspective that I couldn’t hear very well, I’ve got something in my ear that makes me hear very well, probably had a, well I’m giving myself a lot of [laughs] intelligence there, but I… this thing in my ear is helping me to hear. And I like, I like sounds. You know, I like… I like being able to hear, funnily enough [laughs].

OK so that was a positive reinforcement in itself, the fact that you?

Kendal: Hmm I can hear so

It gave you access to sound and communication?

Kendal: Yeah I mean even when I get a… well I recently had a hearing check-up, and even when they tweaked them a little bit I thought, Ooh, ooh that’s a new sound I haven’t heard before. So really simple things, Ooh, I got in the car and said, ooh yeah, that’s what a car engine sounds like.

Yeah.

Kendal: You know, so simple things you just go, Oh. I kind of… they’re there to help me, and I’ve always, I think because you’ve had such a positive attitude with it, well people wear glasses, yeah OK you get, you know, when you’re a kid you can be, you know, specky four-eyes or something like that, and… I mean I do wear glasses, I’ve got contacts in at the moment, but… there shouldn’t be a stigma with glasses, well there isn’t really a stigma with glasses, in fact they’re quite cool now, but with hearing aids I thin… they, I, they were always the thing that old people wore.

Suzi: Hmm.

Kendal: And I think you did a very good job of sort of… That’s just you, Kendal that’s fine. And I was just like, Oh yeah OK, I’ve got hearing aids. And I do remember kids coming up to me and going, What’s that in your ear? It’s a hearing aid. I was, I wasn’t very, I wasn’t fazed by people…

Suzi: I can remember you

Kendal: almost trying

Suzi: Yeah, I can remember you in show and tell’ at school

Kendal: Yeah.

Suzi: when you had the moulds.

Kendal: I used to bring in the moulds to show kids, This is? what my ear looks like, with the mould.

Suzi: Yeah.

Kendal: I used to be quite excited about it. And… I think because I was quite open about it, it kind of… then puts it on show and then people can’t really… question it, or they just accept that’s you, that’s a part of you. It’s like, Oh right, yeah, shes deaf.

I mean I’m, since I’ve been with my other half, I’m more inclined to show how I feel.

Hes sort of breaking down the barriers a little bit by little bit. And he… in the… early stages of our relationship it was quite difficult because he was the first sort of proper partner that I’d had and… it took me a lot of getting used to, the fact that someone actually found me beautiful, someone who actually loved me for me, and that took a lot of getting used to.

OK I appreciate that.

A lot of getting used to.

Yeah, so how long have you known each other?

…Been together for five and a half years and we sort of knew each other a few months before then and, you know, that, so I’d say cracking on for six years, so… a long time, a long time.

So it’s a well-established relationship, yeah?

Yes, yeah. And you know, he did ask a couple of questions but it was more sort of… it wasn’t in a way which made you think, Oh, you know, I want to hide, it was just, you know, he wanted to know more about… you know, the scar

Yeah sure.

you know, the tell-tale scar of the cleft lip, more than anything else. So… I told him… so.

I’ve always been self-conscious of the way I look, always will be. But… after I started getting the nose repaired and rebuilt I guess some of my confidence came back. It… probably affected my ability to date for, you know, junior high school, but that… didn’t hold me back after that.

Hmm so what age was that then?

…Probably…

I’m a bit confused with high school in Canada, yeah.

Oh yeah, yeah, no worries. So we go, depending on the province, we go from Grade 1 through Grade 13.

Yeah.

I think everywhere has got rid of 13 now. So you would be in junior high from Grade 8-10 and high school from 11-13. So junior high school, when others were beginning to date, and that was before I had had some of the last… round of reconstruction surgery on my nose, I was not the most datable of the guys. I was outgoing more than most, so I could compensate for some of that, but

Outgoing in what way?

I’d go across the room and talk to somebody, which helps, makes a difference, yeah.

OK so you wouldn’t shy away then?

No, but it was always… I was always aware I had to as well though.

Sorry?

I was always aware I had to do that if I

OK yeah.

if I wanted to… you know, do what some of my other friends did easily, I had to push a little bit harder.

OK is that a common thread with other aspects of your life, would you say, or is that something peculiar to dating, more pertinent to dating?

Well the dating and the making friends and the fitting into new schools.

Yeah.

But that… a lot of that changed in the university, changed dramatically. It probably changed in the last year or two of high school really: kids begin to mature a bit and it’s… they’re more interested in who you are as an individual rather than the initial sort of physical, He looks a little different.

So a little bit less superficial or?

A little bit less, yeah, I think: I hope, I hope so, yeah hmm.

OK so things changed quite dramatically then at that, would you say?

Things really changed dramatically, I remember it changing when I moved jurisdiction right across the country when I was, what, 17, into a new school, 16 or 17. And… suddenly it was all fine….Got along good, I had a good circle of friends, yeah, it was not a problem, and then off to university and then, you know, university was…an eye opening experience, so yeah.

I’d say I’ve always had like… average amount of friends and just always gone out socially. I wouldn’t really say it’s played any impact at all. Yeah just socially my lifes been fine: sort of always gone out with friends and had a laugh. It hasn’t really played… any impact at all.

I think I became sort of, from when you become a teenager to sort of the age I’ve reached now, you become sort of very self-conscious… and I just feel that maybe other people shouldn’t let that try and… just because you have a cleft lip and palate, you should try not to feel… I don’t know, I definitely felt a bit… self-conscious in those ages because of the way I looked. I think theres a lot of peer pressure and

Did you feel comfortable with girls, has that been?

See that’s something I struggled with as well, I’d say. It’s like your whole image to like the opposite sex or… whatever and… just your whole, the whole social thing was a bit… I think everyone becomes a bit obsessed with their image and I just, yeah, I’d try not to let that bother you too much, would be some advice I guess. I mean as I got to sort of 17-18, the confidence I sort of grew from college, it didn’t bother me as much at all.

But… theres something I feel about it can be difficult. I think it’s a difficult age….But, yeah, I found, I sort of found it difficult with relationships as well I guess. But… especially now like 19-20 I’ve… become a lot more relaxed with it and feel a lot more… comfortable about myself… and with the way I look and relationships and stuff so… a lot happier now.

So were there issues in the past at all?

…Only really self-confidence issues, I’d say.

Yeah.

I don’t feel there was anything… else wrong at all. I think it was just the way I made myself feel.

So it was more within you than anything.

Yeah.