I have got, they have brought me the shower seat there, which I can dip in and come up. I’ve been told, once I did and – no, I tried to improvise my own actually. I filled the bath. I went in happily – at that time I was a bit better – happily, and had a good bath. And then I let the water out. Then I was trying to get out of the bath. I couldn’t, I couldn’t raise myself. I was so stupid that, in the water would have been better, I would have been bounced up [laughs]. And I was struggling for half an hour. My wife was upstairs. She couldn’t hear me at all. And I was struggling. My hand, and they were all, my both the hands were slippery because of the wetness, and as the bathtub is so shiny. Oh, I was exhausted. It took a long time.

You got out by yourself in the end?

I got out. And I was so, I couldn’t, I just slept on the floor even. But I rested. The only – then I learnt myself – the only thing to do, which can help you is a rest. It doesn’t matter, and not panic. If I have fallen down, stay there, recover, get your strength, and then do. This I understood, and I applied. But I, it, it is there, and then I apply.

And so we had to get a bathroom installed downstairs fairly rapidly, because although we have downstairs cloakroom we didn’t have a bath, and Olivia did like her bath, and quite clearly another decision had to be made about whether it was a shower or a bath, and again with hindsight we made the right decision very quickly. We were told it would take three months to get approval for the planning permission for the bath to be put in and funding from the Social Services and all of that sort of thing, and we said, ‘That’s simply not acceptable. So we got one fitted within a week. We actually got it made. We created another room downstairs from a cloakroom area, knocked walls down, put new walls up, put the plumbing in, put a bath in, and were able to cope with that for the next two to three weeks by lifting and assisting Olivia in and out of the bath. But it became quite clear that that was not possible any longer. And so we got a mobile hoist system, through the OT support from the local Social Services, and we from then on hoisted Olivia in and out of that bath until her death at the end of December that year.

With hindsight, as I say, we should have made that decision earlier. We should have decided to put more permanent facilities in very quickly, and the advice that we would give in those circumstances is to ignore all the planning and if people want to come chasing you afterwards they can, but you’ve got to get stuff there that will make her life or – well, in this particular form of the disease and it’s predominantly, in fact almost exclusively, young females, you have to make everything possible to ease the situation of the patient at the time, in our case our daughter. So that’s the big lesson.

I mean they gave me a – it’s, they gave me a round stool that you put in the bath and sit on. Now how the hell do you sit in it, put your bum on a round thing in the middle of the bath? Because you can’t get in the bath for a start. That’s the first thing you’ve got to get over, yeah. Get in it. And then again if I drop the soap, where does it go? Always goes the same way, downwards. You don’t get, you don’t get a lump of soap that comes upwards or floats, yeah, yeah.

And you said some of the equipment you’ve just got sitting in the shed?

Oh, yeah, yeah, we’ve got a lot of stuff. A toilet lifter, it’s just an extension of the toilet, which is no good at all. Because you can, you utilise yourself as to what you can do with what you’ve got, rather than trying to change your ways to their sort of ideas. You know, it doesn’t work like that. It works like how people can manage their lives with what they’ve got, rather than trying to change their ways. Yeah, you can’t change, you can’t change your ways to somebody else’s thinking.

The only slight drawbacks – at home I have something called a Clos-o-Mat, which is like a Swiss lavatory which has a pressure button. It also has arm buttons, but I can’t use my arms. It has a foot pressure button, I can press on that. And it’s a lavatory that enables me to wash myself, so it gives me a certain amount of independence. And they didn’t have one of those at the hospice, which I thought was surprising. But they are a cancer hospice, not a motor neurone disease hospice, though they take people with motor neurone disease. And so perhaps it wasn’t as surprising. But these things are coming in now. The Japanese toilets are quite fashionable these days. They do all sorts of wonderful other things, like play music, and avoid the embarrassment of sound, but they do wash you as well. We first experienced those when my son lived in Japan. And you can actually find Clos-o-Mats now in some disabled toilets. I noticed that the [local music and arts centre] has wonderful disabled toilets. Some of these new buildings really do. Wide doors, which is good, room to turn the wheelchair round, so you don’t have to back out, which is the usual thing. They’re normally too small. But they also have Clos-o-Mats, and they also have hoists in some of them. So people who really needed to get on to a toilet could if they – I think you have to take your own sling. But no, some wonderful ones Anyway, the Clos-o-Mat is useful.

Maryse’I went to hospital to admitted, to undergo

To undergo

Daughter’A test.

Maryse’So I and my friend went by ambulance, went to the nurses’ station. And I said, ‘I need to go to the toilet. ‘Oh we can’t do that now, we’re doing the take over. So I retreated and went up ten minutes later. The same reply. I said ‘Well, you should know I’m going to wet myself. I said ‘I’m not incontinent but I do suffer a little bit of urgency. So then they joined me in the bathroom. Put me on the hoist and I said to them, I could speak a bit better than now. And I said, ‘Take my trousers off and I’ll be okay. ‘Oh no, you won’t. So they put me over the loo, sat in the hoist and then dragged me backward forward, behind to get my trousers down. You can imagine the result. So after that, they took me up to what was going to be my bed. I had a change of clothes that I brought in.

Ann’And then we were into the summer holidays, and that was fine because I was at home. And then I said, ‘Well, look, in September you’re going to have to have a carer in. Because I can’t go to work, you know, not knowing that you’re all right. Well, Peter didn’t, didn’t want anybody. ‘I’ll manage, I’ll manage. And as one of the OTs had pointed out, even if it was just somebody to help him to get dressed in the morning, so that he didn’t have to struggle with that, and then he’d got more energy for whatever else he wanted to do. So we, we managed to find somebody, and the day before she was due to start she, she fell over or she hurt her back and that was the end of that. So there was absolutely nothing we could do. We were thrown in at the deep end, or Peter was. And he’s, hasn’t needed anybody.

Peter’No.

Ann’So I help, now I’m at home, I mean I can help him if he’s up and about, or he can still dress himself. And he can do it all, it just takes a long time.

Peter’Yeah.

Ann’But he is able to do it. So, and he doesn’t give up, you see. So I mean that’s the thing, you’ve got to be really quite tenacious about it all. And who else have we had? Oh, we did have a urologist, didn’t we? Because at one time Peter was having problems getting to the toilet, and it was particularly when we were on journeys and things. And but we’ve now decided that we didn’t really need that. If we’d just looked, as I said, out of the box slightly, there are ways and means. And if on a journey you just stop every hour and a half, and you just get out and you go to the toilet whether you feel the need or not, then you’ve covered that base. I mean, still in the house sometimes it’s a problem, because he can’t get quickly enough to the toilet. But it’s few and far between. It does happen, it is distressing, but it’s not a large percentage of the time. So I mean, and, and you can get quite low about that, can’t you? But then we can move on.

Peter’Yeah.

Ann’So that’s the main thing, that we can move on [laughs]. So I think actually if, all in all that if we’ve asked for help, we’ve been given help. And unfortunately there isn’t a lot of help that’s going to change the situation, that’s the thing. And in the end it’s like anything, it’s down to – the illness really is our illness, it’s not just Peter’s. Oooh! And we have to cope with it in our own way. And I suppose in some ways we cope with it by trying to ignore it, [Peter’mmm] by just doing what we can in the best way we can.

Something that’s been, made quite a big difference to me and my freedom has been having a catheter put in, actually. Again we did that for the flight, for the long flight. Lifting me into a small airline toilet is not that easy [laughs]. And my husband and I have done it once before, and it does cut down on your enjoyment of Business Class if you constantly have to worry how many glasses of champagne you can have before you need the loo. So we, we thought we’d wipe that out. And I had a fantastic hospice nurse in Auckland, who I’d built up a really good rapport with, and, and she really, I’d always thought that catheters were a big deal and that you couldn’t really have a catheter long term. And she said, ‘Oh, no, no, they’re not. You’ve got to be careful of infection and you need to drink more, but it’s not, it’s really not a big deal. And if you don’t like it, you know, you can, you can have it removed.

So having built up that trust with her, I had one fitted, and it, and it’s been great, because what it now means is that I can go out with anybody for the day. I’m not restricted to only going out for two hours before I need the loo again and, ‘Is there a disabled loo? And is there someone strong enough or even that I’d want to help me to the loo?’ That’s, all of that kerfuffle has gone. And it, and it’s great. There are some downsides. It’s, it’s tubes, it’s plumbing. It, you are sitting in your chair, really, for the day then. You’re not being picked up for, two or three times a day. And, and I think that does in turn, can affect your, your bowels and make you more constipated. But that’s, all of those things are small fry and easily surmountable compared to having to be pulled up and, and the indignity of people pulling your trousers down and’

Yeah’

‘being able to do it.

‘again, it’s, it’s sort of possibly slightly counter-intuitive, isn’t it? That it, it actually makes you more dignified.

Yes, it does. And it, and, and now my father-law can help me and just, you know, fills a bottle for me from my catheter bag by just lifting up my trouser leg. And somehow, when it’s in a bag like that, it doesn’t, it doesn’t seem personal. And it doesn’t really – yes, it’s, it’s something that’s, you know, it doesn’t really mean like that you’re, that he’s helping me with toileting. It doesn’t feel like that.

No, it’s sort of removed, isn’t it?

Yeah, it is, it is.

Yeah.

So in actual fact it’s given me more freedom. And it means that I never think about how much I’m drinking. I can just drink away, have as many cups of coffee as I like without thinking, ‘Oh, yeah, but if I have a cup of coffee now, then I’ll need the loo in an hour. And, and my husband’s got to go out. All of that worry has gone. And that worry of, ‘Oh, I need the loo. Oh, gosh, but, but I’ve only just asked for this and, oh, and she’s in a really bad mood or he’s in a really bad mood. Oh, God, I’ve got to ask them to ‘Or they’re really tired and – don’t, don’t have any of that now. So that’s given me a freedom actually. And, and you’ve got to manage it, but it, you know, it, it can work.

Has, has it affected your relationship with your husband?

It’s made us closer. It’s funny, isn’t it? Because the doctor said did I need any more help? And I said, ‘Well, I’m struggling getting dressed. Well, having a shower and washing my hair was worst. I was just, it just wiped me out after I’d managed to do it. And she said, ‘Well, we can get the Social Services. They can come and help you. And the lady came from Social Services, and she wanted my husband here. And he got very upset. He said, ‘What’s wrong with me? Why didn’t you tell me?’ He said, ‘I’ll wash your hair and shower you. And it was quite funny, because when you get old you don’t really look at each other any more in that way. And I thought, ‘Oh, gosh, he’s not seen me naked for years. I don’t know whether I’ll like that. But anyway he said, ‘Well, give me a try before you start getting other people in. I said, ‘Oh, all right then. So he’s doing very well [laughs]. He’s learnt how to put shampoo and conditioner on. Because they don’t know about these things, do they? And so yes, we’re a lot closer I suppose, because I’ve let him in. Because I was so independent, and you do get independent, don’t you? And also this is the first time we’ve lived just the two of us. Because it wasn’t long ago the youngest one was at home, and my mother. And so the last couple of years it’s just been us and the dog, and now it’s just us. So it’s the first time we’ve been just the two of us [laughs]. Yeah.

But it’s actually quite nice, in a way.

It is. And it’s funny because I mean boys do their own things, don’t they? But four girls at home, they want to talk to you all the time. And girls are different. Boys, if you give them food and the telly, they’re fine, aren’t they? And then clean clothes. Girls are, ‘She’s taken my jumper. ‘She’s done this. And so we never finished a conversation. We used to have to go out to talk [laughs]. And I think he just switched off. So – all these women around. And then when we were on our own, I’d say something and I’d wait for an answer, and he’d say, ‘Are you talking to me?’ I’d say, ‘There’s nobody else here except the dog. ‘Oh. And I said, ‘You’re going to have to listen to me, because if I speak, I’m speaking to you. [laughs] So that took a bit of adjusting, anyway [laughs].

From your perspective, what was it like, you know, having other people come in to do care instead of your husband?

Fantastic. Because I could ask them to do whatever I liked, and I didn’t feel guilty about it. I didn’t feel guilty that he’s got to do it all day. So I remember the time when we first got the carer in to help me in the mornings with showering and dressing, and it was fantastic. It was such a huge relief. Because we were finding that my husband would be helping me dress and shower and, and he wouldn’t be dressed and showered himself till 11 in the morning. And then that would bother him, and I’d feel guilty about that. And that’s, and that’s just the start of your day, you know. You’ve got all sorts of other challenges to come. As soon as we had my lady to come in in the mornings, [husband] was totally freed up. And I would come out in the morning, dressed, ready – ching – and we could have breakfast together and start the day, you know, afresh. And then the challenges that we faced were manageable through the day. You didn’t start the day with the biggest task. So that was nothing but positive, having care.

So it hasn’t bothered you having somebody else doing the personal stuff?

No. I’ve, I quickly adapted to it, I think because by the time I took that on, we took that help on, I was really, [husband] and I were really at each other and were really ready to kill each other, you know [laughs]. So I was just glad for someone else to help and take that tension out, so that my husband wasn’t my carer. And so it was nothing but a relief. The same, I remember the same feeling when I first used a wheelchair.

We used to live in a house about 800 metres from the beach and it was a nice ten-minute walk. And we used to like to walk down and sit on the beach or go for a coffee at the cafe or whatever. And when my, when my walking became difficult, we couldn’t do that any more. And I used to – you know, we could drive down – but I used to miss being able to walk down. So as soon as we got a wheelchair, ‘Great, we can walk down again, and we can walk along the promenade. And it allowed me and freed me up to do things that I hadn’t been able to do. So I think because we’d left it relatively late, till things were getting frustrating, then actually it didn’t become, it wasn’t a big deal, whereas I know other people struggle with going into a wheelchair. But it, it gave me freedom in some ways. So, yeah, it’s interesting.

That’s interesting, it is interesting. And I guess, I mean in a way sort of having your husband do all the personal care actually becomes quite unromantic in a way.

Yes, yeah. And it wasn’t that he was, wasn’t good at caring for me. He was very good. But I didn’t want him doing everything. And I’d feel guilty for that. And, you know, I’d, I’d ask him to keep the shower on while he was washing me, because otherwise I’d get cold. ‘No, it was a waste of water. Well, as soon as you get a carer in you can have it how you like, you know. So you don’t get any backchat, [laughs] which when you’ve got people close to you is harder. And I’m finding that now as well where I’ve got a lot of support from our family here – phenomenal. I, I don’t want to ask them to clean my bathroom or tidy my lounge or, or, you know, clean the kitchen. I don’t, I don’t feel comfortable asking people who are giving up their time. And I – but yet I’m quite happy to ask things of people that I’m paying, or that that is exactly what they’re there for. It, it makes me, I feel like I’m much more independent, and that they really are an extension of my arms and I can tell them exactly how I want, want it. Whereas if I ask my, my relatives to clean the, the bathroom, and they don’t do it how I want it, then I would struggle with that.

Yeah, yeah.

And that would frustrate me as much as it not being done. So, yeah, it’s actually, I’ve actually found it good. What I haven’t found good with care is where the people change all the time. I find that really really hard. And that one challenge has been probably the biggest challenge for me, moving back to the UK and setting up with new carers is, I’ve set up through an agency to start with and I didn’t have a key worker. And I think I, I think I counted that in the first two months of being here I’d met twenty carers. And that is really dull, telling people how you want things all the time. And, Not like that or like that and, yeah, really quite tiring. When I, when I have carers in, I just want to babble on. And so that the fact that I’m being washed and dressed becomes irrelevant. You don’t even really think about that, to the point where you think, Did I, did they put any deodorant on me? I can’t really remember, because you were gassing on about something. And, and, but when it’s a changeover of people all the time, I find that hard.

My mum and brothers built a wall around me and made me feel safe and protected even though they were struggling emotionally. I admire their strength and devotion to me and love them very much. I also have great friends who will do anything to help me. Unfortunately, none of them were able to care for me full time which I understand of course.

I was appointed a social worker and an occupational therapist to attend to my care needs and adaptations to my home. However, this didn’t happen automatically but as I was finding daily living increasingly difficult I blundered around trying to get help. Because I’m Jewish I contacted a local Jewish family centre and they gave me a Social Worker. She only worked part-time and had very little experience dealing with care packages or agencies. When she left the organisation I was without a Social Worker for about one year. I was eventually appointed one from my local council who is fantastic and sorted out the mess that was my care package. I really think Social Workers should be appointed on diagnosis because this was a cause of enormous stress and worry to me for several years.

My first Social Worker arranged for care from an agency for a few hours every day which eventually increased as I became more disabled. Because I had a baby, whom I dropped a couple of times (poor mite!) I was given more care hours but my Social Worker was always reluctant to ask the council because of her inexperience. I became an employer to the carers which I wasn’t prepared for at all. They walked all over me but now I have learnt how to choose carers and have a wonderful team helping us. I was given full custody of my children after my divorce and have carers working here all the time doing day and night shifts. I was also given 15 hours care per week for the children by the children’s division of Social Services which is an enormous help. I’m so grateful for the support I have from Social Services because I know that people living in other countries are not as fortunate and really struggle financially. I also have to give credit to my carers, who are not particularly well paid by most agencies, but care for us with such kindness. There are some amazing people around and the benefit of having MND is that I have met some of them.

I had someone from the DSS come here and help me apply for benefits. At the moment I receive Severe Disability Allowance, Disability Living Allowance and Income Support. I also receive help to pay the interest on my mortgage and thankfully am able to manage quite well on this income.

My Occupational Therapist had the difficult task of convincing a fairly able woman who was in denial to make significant adaptations to her home which I strongly resisted. I didn’t want to stop using the stairs or climbing into the bath whilst I could. But when the care agency carried out a risk assessment and threatened to pull my care I had no choice. The council kindly gave me a grant to provide a walk in shower, through floor lift from lounge to bedroom and an outdoor lift. I also appreciate this support very much because I’m able to live very comfortably in my own home.

What about having carers in? How is that?

That’s hard. Originally I only had carers in once a day – one, one day for housework, and then I, eventually I got housework and two evening meals, so that the children weren’t always cooking, as food was becoming a problem. And when I fell and broke my hand last year, I upped the care every morning for showers and what have you, and then went back to my normal. And then earlier this year I was struggling to have a shower because [daughter] isn’t always around in the morning. So I upped the care.

And I’m fine now, because I’ve got a carer that I get on with and I’ve got -, and it’s not that I don’t get on with them, but I, when I was having a succession of different ones I was saying that, making the excuse that I wasn’t going anywhere so I don’t need to get dressed. Because having personal care, it’s not very nice when you don’t know the person. And it’s hard when somebody has to shower you and help you get dry and then dressed, and you’ve never met them before. It’s easier to say, ‘I can manage’, and then wait until somebody’s in at lunchtime and maybe get dressed then.

So now you’ve got continuity?

Now I’ve got the continuous care, so nothing’s.

And how long has this carer been with you?

Three months now. And we’ve just hit it off. Like I just, I feel as I’ve known her all my life, and nothing’s a bother to her.

It’s just luck really, isn’t it, who you end up with?

It is. But when you have to have help it’s not easy, really when you have three or four different carers a week in. And not only that, it’s quite tiring when you’ve got that many that you’ve got to start and show them where the hoover is, show them how the shower works. And I have to have a set of crockery left on the bench. And if I don’t, didn’t tell a new carer, they would automatically put them away. And then I would go and maybe want a bowl of cereal or something and couldn’t get a bowl out the cupboard and so, I go hungry.

So we opted for the direct payment system to try and employ somebody ourselves. Unfortunately what you have to do under the system is you actually have to set yourself effectively as a small business and do the PAYE and everything for the people you employ, the carers that you, you employ, an anti-fraud measure that the government has introduced. But it does make a hell of a lot more difficult. We were, there’s a partner organisation in the County which will do it for you for a fee so we opted for that because there was no way that I was going to sit down’ I was going to say at the end of the day. There wasn’t an end of day you know and, and start working out PAYE and learning how to do that. So we opted for that. But we still had to do a lot of accounting, keeping hours, keeping records of, of annual, of leave that was entitled and all this sort of thing. So it was, it was actually quite a burden to do that. But we felt that because social services would use an agency and we’d, we would probably get a load of different staff in variable calibre, calibres we’d try to find somebody ourselves and that was very difficult. It was very difficult to find anyone really and certainly it was very difficult to find somebody who we could trust.

But we did eventually find someone both long after it was really needed and I was really absolutely in the ground by then, just day and night you know sort of struggling on. I felt dizzy a lot of the time. My head was buzzing from lack of sleep. I was getting about five hours of sleep a night. And also during the day and looking after Di and knowing that she was going to die you know. And so it was, it was a labour but it was a labour of love, with no positive end in sight.

After a while we couldn’t cope with the hours that we, we had the maximum number of hours available to a carer, available to us through the direct payment. So social services set in and said okay well we can get you some agency staff as well [coughs] And we thought okay and that was a real nightmare.

We they started to put the staff in place round about the end of November early December time and we got the carers, the agency carers in. Some of them quite frankly I wouldn’t leave alone with my wife. They were dreadful. I mean they were probably perfectly competent with somebody with a less serious, a less demanding disease, with somebody in a less vulnerable position. But I really really wouldn’t have allowed some of them alone with her.

So we just had to struggle on. We went back to social services and we got an agreement with them, through the agency, that they would restrict the staff they said to two people that we felt were reasonably competent. One was actually excellent, the other was, was quite competent I felt. There were difficulties there that I felt but of course being agency staff they weren’t allowed to lift. And the flat, the tiny flat we were in over the other way we couldn’t get a hoist in, it was too small. So I had to continue to be available to do all the lifting, day and night. So I, I got more sleep but I couldn’t, get you know enough.

And then came Christmas and for eleven consecutive nights when we were promised agency staff, they didn’t turn up, at the last minute. There was nobody or we got a, or we sometimes got a telephone call saying the person had called up. But sometimes just nobody turned up. And I was I was just staggering around really, just trying to cope. But in the end in the end we found two carers who we employed directly who were good and two agency carers who were trusted. But as I say even up to there were problems with of getting the hoist in here as well. They made it a problem with the bathroom. They hadn’t put in the electrics properly so they couldn’t be a hoist put up. And Di was really in her last stages by then and really didn’t want the disruption of the builders and so just decided that we would just carry on as we were at this point for the best.