The trouble is that men, and I know, one shouldn’t be too categorical but men are supposed to be the strong ones. So they don’t let their emotions show, but they bottle it up. And they bottle it up and all he could say was, I couldn’t teach him to cross the road And that would make my heartbreak absolutely, you know, yes. No, he was never the same. Never the same.

[Nurse’s name] mentioned counselling, I mean that was a dirty word. We need to go to the doctor, you know, you’re obviously depressed But it’s very difficult. If only you can get the men to talk. If you can get man to man even, you know, find somebody else who’s been through a similar thing so that they can at least talk to each other. Because, as I say, they feel they’ve got to be the strong one and they’re not always. It is quite often the woman that has to carry on, you know, plan the meals, do the shopping, and that sort of thing.

About a week or so after he [son] died, I had a letter from the mother of one of the recipients, saying how grateful she was. And so I wrote back to her and said I’d love to meet her daughter, but only if her daughter was happy enough to do it, because I could realise what a terrible strain that might be.

And I suppose about, we spoke several times on the phone and then about six months later I drove to [place name] to meet her. Absolutely delightful young lady, absolutely delightful. She was then busy doing her BA in social sciences. She had the most delightful boyfriend and one of the magazines, I can’t remember now which one, did a little article on her. And then when she qualified, I think it was the Daily Telegraph did a big spread on her as well, which was lovely, yes.

And also the lady that had his liver, it was her second liver transplant. She’d never been very well from the first one, and she has been doing again absolutely brilliantly. And I’ve only met her the once because she lives in [place name] and I was living in [place name] at the time and it’s a bit of a trek up. And she’s doing brilliantly as well.

And I’ve had a letter from a gentleman who had one of his kidneys, and he’s overjoyed because he’s got two grandchildren now. He’s now fit enough to play football with. I haven’t heard from him for several years, but obviously all was going well there.

You mentioned you also went on television. Was that a bit later?

Yes, I suppose a couple of months, six months later, something like that, yes. We had a call from Richard and Judy’ [TV programme hosts], and then [recipients’ name] and I went up. And there’d been some stupid American article about the recipient taking on the characteristics of the donor. Which of course he had to bring up and [Recipient 1] shot him down. She was not a sporty sort. She likes walking and that sort of thing, but not team games and that sort of thing.

So you were both on?

We were both on together yes. And then on the This Morning’ programme and I met [Recipient 2], who had had Lyall’s liver. And then Kilroy’ [TV programme].

Everybody reacts differently. It doesn’t matter to cry, but somehow I think you owe it to the person not to completely disintegrate. They would have hated to have seen you in that state. You have to look back on all the good times, the fantastic times that you had together.

My personal view is you don’t make a shrine, you know like some people do with the bedrooms and that sort of thing. I’ve got my treasure box over there with all his little bit’s and pieces in. But I haven’t got a, you know what I mean, because you don’t want to push it in people’s faces when they come, because some people, we have sorry’ in this country if you run into somebody with a trolley in Tesco’s. You say sorry to somebody if they’ve lost a child.

Some people find it very difficult. They will find, people will ignore them, and it’s not because they don’t care, they don’t know what to say. They don’t want to upset you, to make you cry, they don’t want to cry. And their heart is going out to you, but they don’t know what to say. they’re not ignoring you, they’re not, they’re caring but they just feel so inadequate.

Yes. Is there anything, a message or advice you would give to someone in that situation, because a lot of people will say, I just don’t know what to say

A hand on the shoulder and, I’m sorry what’s happened is all you need to do. You needn’t say anymore. Just a hug, or a hand on the shoulder, that’s all you need to say. Because the recipient will feel your love. it’s hard, but once it’s done and the longer you postpone it, the harder it’s going to be. And letters mean a great deal. If you can’t say anything, write a little note. How much or what fun you had, or anything nice about the person. it’s a great comfort, a great comfort because you find out things about your loved one that you didn’t know about.

Christmas is difficult, birthdays are difficult. The day of the death is difficult, but you just have to realise they are going to be pretty gloomy days. And, if you don’t feel like meeting people, then organise yourself so that you don’t have to meet people. If you want to be alone in your grief, on the other hand sometimes people find it better to go out and be with somebody.

Be true to yourself, don’t do what other people say you should. What you feel you want to do. People can’t live your life for you and if you want to shut yourself away for the day, then shut yourself off. If you want to go out and try and forget about it, do what you feel is right for you.

So they took us up to ITU. We met the doctor up there and he reiterated what they’d said down in A&E. And said that, in the morning, they would do the brain tests to confirm that he was brain dead.

I turned to my husband because, when he was about eight, Lyall had gone through my purse and got these cards, What’s this for? What’s that for And I had my organ donor card in there.

And I explained to him about it and said, You know, if anything happens to me, you’ll have to organise it because your Dad will be useless And, because I was in the medical profession, we watched a lot of medical programmes together so he had some idea.

And so I said to, turned to my husband and said, Well look, Lyall had got a donor card. Have you any objection He said, No So I turned round and I said to them, Well, if the worst comes to the worst, we are happy for you to retrieve his organs Because I think there must be nothing worse than having to turn round to a distressed family and ask them. I mean, being a midwife, I’ve quite often had difficult things to tell people but I can think really of nothing worse than that.

It was ten past eight on a Thursday evening and a knock at the door, two policemen. Are you the parents of Lyall And your heart sort of stops. And they said he’d been involved in an accident and had head injuries, and he was at the local hospital.

And I thought, oh dear, he’s either not too bad, or really poorly because if it, otherwise he would have probably gone to the nearest neuro surgical unit at [place name].

So they offered to drive us up there, but I said no. So I drove my husband up and we went up there. We went to Accident and Emergency [A&E] and they said that he was up in ITU [Intensive Therapy Unit]. He’d had an MRI scan and that the brain damage was incompatible with life.

So they took us up to ITU. We met the doctor up there and he reiterated what they’d said down in A&E. And said that, in the morning, they would do the brain tests to confirm that he was brain dead.