I think in terms of dealing with things with my husband afterwards, like between us – it was really important that we were open with each other about how we felt about things.

That was – I think that was one of the most important things for us, to make sure that we stayed close during our grieving, that it was something we did together.

And also allowing him – allowing him to be a grieving parent as well. Rather than it being all on me. So that we did – we took care of each other, not just – it wasn’t just one-sided.

Even though the staff have been wonderful, have always been wonderful. But the actual place itself. So when we had to go back – I went for an early scan, first of all. Because once again I’d had it previously. I’d had some early bleeding. And went back for an early scan. And walking back through the doors, I was sick in the car park. It was that – Well I wasn’t feeling great anyway, but [laugh]. The fact that actually having to go back to the hospital. And the last time I’d walked out of those doors was when we’d left our son behind. And I was sick outside the hospital, because I felt that bad. And we went – we went in. And, but they – On my notes, all my notes, they’d put all – There’s a Sands sticker they can put on the front of your notes. And it’s lime green. It’s like highlighter green. And so anyone who picks up your notes knows that you have lost a baby.
And that’s been useful, actually. And just – So I don’t have to feel like I have to – And it’s got his date of birth on it. So I don’t feel like I have to explain myself constantly. People see that and they know to be careful. So not to be – Because you know, you get some people who just go “Oh, is it your first baby?” You know? “No. No.” And then “Oh, right.” And then you explain – you know, you have to explain. And that is frustrating when that happens.

But yeah, but most people, you know, they know that sticker’s on the front, and they know to just look for it, and that it’s – it’s there. But yeah, going back to the hospital was, was hard. But I’ve been back so many times now that it’s now more – I more associate it with this baby, like a separate experience. So.

Yeah, so I still get emails through for the groups, whenever they have a group meeting. But obviously I said at the moment I don’t think I could walk in to a group meeting pregnant now. I think that would be awful for the other women who have just lost babies. But they’ve put me in touch with some other women who are also having a baby after loss. So that’s been quite useful.

Just talking to a couple of other women who are also going, doing the same thing as me – they’ve lost a baby. Or women who – actually some of the women who have had babies after loss. And talk. So I could feel like I’ve validated some of my own feelings. That you know, I wasn’t going crazy, because I was being super-anxious about certain things. And they’ve said “No, I was too.” So it kind of – I think it’s good to validate some of the things you’re feeling, and know that you’re not just being crazy or weird or anything, it’s actually that’s – a lot of other people felt the same way as you.

And we also taught the kids what to say. Because I felt awful for my son going back to school, because he’d only – he’d only gone in – he’d gone in with scans to show, to do show and tell in his class about we’re having a baby, and. And so we spoke to his teacher about obviously how he was dealing with things. And he – she said he – he stood up in front of his class on his first day back, and just explained to his whole class that the baby had died. And she said he did it – and then – even let the kids take questions – he took questions from the other kids in his class. So yeah, he – and he talks about it more now than he did. But he was a bit young at the time, and he wanted to – he didn’t want to talk about it. He, you know, he blocked it out. My daughter going back to school, she’s going back to secondary school, and one of the first lessons she had on her day back, first day back, she had a cover teacher for French, and they did all the members of my family, in French. And she just ran out of the classroom in tears. And so luckily her head of year was really supportive. And I think it was really good for her to know that she had people at school that she’d go to.

And also when I was at home, if they phoned me at any time – I said, “Phone me at any time, I’ll come and get you.” So she – we tried to get her back into school as quickly as possible. Not like straight away, but. We – they took a whole week or so off. But then it became one of those things where they just needed the routine back, to kind of get back to normal. And so, but she had that get-out, that she could just go home whenever she wanted. And obviously she was 12 at the time, and it’s an emotional time being a teenager anyway. So she, yeah. So she did have to come home a few times, when she was just really upset and she just wanted – she felt like everything got on top of her a bit too much. But yeah, apart from that her school were really supportive, and she saw the emotional welfare officer. I don’t know if that’s what they’re called now. But it used to be called the emotional welfare officer. But like the kind of like student support counsellor. And that really helped her as well, helped her get back into, get back into school a bit. Because yeah, she really was grieving for him a lot. And she said she found it hard, because people kept saying well, you know, you lost a – your mum was pregnant but now isn’t, kind of thing. They didn’t quite get how it had impacted on her as well.

So I think that was a lot to consider. It was not – it was just not just dealing with our grief, but also managing our children’s grief as well. Which is really hard. And also asking other people to help deal with their grief too.

I did have times where I had to take a few days off work around the twenty three week mark, because I just was so worried. You know, around that time. Obviously it’s just – It’s like this, this – you know, like I say, this mark I had to pass. And especially just like knowing that once – And knowing I’d gone past the twenty four week mark was almost like a bit of a relief.

Into this kind of viability stage. I found I was a lot more aware of success rates at certain birth times. So knowing that at this point ninety percent of babies live for over a year, at this point – you know. Just going through – So I knew that I was like okay, if I can get onto this week, then this baby’s got a ninety percent chance of survival, and if I go to this week, then you know. So I was just a lot more aware that time. Because I think what I didn’t take into account last time I was pregnant is that not everyone gets to keep their baby. And that’s something – Because I’d had two healthy babies, being pregnant meant having a baby, done. And it was almost – And I’d see people putting things up on Facebook, like “Oh, we had our twelve week scan.” And I, yeah. I was just like tentative on their behalf, like don’t get too – you know, don’t get too excited, it might – But you know, you don’t want to take away someone’s excitement about their baby, and you’re just thinking ‘oh no, don’t get your hopes up. Which is like such a negative thing, attitude to have. I knew it sounded bitter. But at the same time, I just couldn’t understand why people could be so enthusiastic so early on, when there might be a chance that you might lose your baby, because – you know – didn’t they know that you could lose your baby that quick, just like that? You know, so I think I just – I became – It was a bit of a, oh I don’t know quite how to describe it. But a bit of a negative attitude towards pregnancies at the whole. And just, just having this real kind of glass half empty kind of attitude towards it, that knowing that just because you’re pregnant doesn’t mean you’re having a baby. And that was it. Yeah. So it wasn’t – Just can’t feel that same excitement. And I think that has, that has been like that while I’ve been pregnant this time round, is that – well, you know, ‘if’ I end up on maternity leave, or if I’m on maternity leave this time next year. And people are saying “Oh yeah, you will be going on maternity. Not if.” If. Like it’s always been ifs and buts this time.

I think in terms of dealing with things with my husband afterwards, like between us – it was really important that we were open with each other about how we felt about things.

That was – I think that was one of the most important things for us, to make sure that we stayed close during our grieving, that it was something we did together.

And also allowing him – allowing him to be a grieving parent as well. Rather than it being all on me. So that we did – we took care of each other, not just – it wasn’t just one-sided.

He’s quite, he’s quite emotionally open, like – that’s with me, anyway. So I think [sigh]. It’s not so much that we grieved differently, it was at different times. It was So, yeah. But then that was quite good in some respects, because it felt like we could take turns taking care of each other.

And it was just, it was just who needed the most care at each time. You know, who needed the most help. And not being – not being selfish with our grieving time – you know, that’s not probably quite the right word. But. Yeah, just to take care of each other as well as anything else. Because, you know – I’m – Just me accepting that he was, he had lost a baby as well.

Which I think probably – I don’t, I obviously can’t speak for other people. But I would always feel awful, for the fact when people asked him how I was. And I think rather than asking him how he was. And I thought well that’s, that’s a horrible thing – why would they not consider the fact that he was also going through this horrible thing? Like he’d have to sit and watch me do all that. And having to – And so the fact that I think he said he appreciated that I appreciated how hard it was for him as well.

Considering what I was doing, that I could also see how, how badly it had affected him too.

But then yeah, just the worst bit was leaving. Just leaving.

How did you know when it was time to leave?

Because we knew there was nothing else to be done. And it was just – At that point, it got to a certain point where you’re just dragging it out.

And you think well there’s no point just dragging, dragging it out. And obviously, you know – he was on – he was on the cold mat, so. Like you had to keep putting him down, because he kept getting too warm. So you had to put him down again. And at that point you think you’re just dragging it out. And it’s just like making it even worse, more painful. So my husband just – he said to me when we were on our own, – because it was – It was late at night by that point. And we had a really, really lovely moment actually, where the two of us on, lying on the bed with him [struggling against tears]. And that was like something we’d done with the other children. So. And then he said “You know, it’s probably about time we should start thinking about going.” And I knew he was right. And obviously we didn’t want to go. And the midwife who’d been with us the whole time, she was just sat in the room. She said “Whenever you want me,” she left us on our own, she said “whenever you want me, just knock on the door.” And she was just sat there, waiting for us.

And so yeah, we just – we decided to leave. But we asked her to take him out. Because I didn’t want to feel like I was leaving him behind [in tears]. Like walking out of the room and leaving him there.

So she took him first. So he left us, rather than the other way round. And, then the midwife – another midwife – actually went out of the room first.

But obviously we have to leave. And you have to go through the ward. Like not right through the ward, but down the same corridor.

And you know those other wards are all off the side of that, and there’s people there with their babies. And the midwife left beforehand, and made sure that nobody was walking down the corridor with a baby. And made sure that everyone – So that we could leave, without having to bump into someone else carrying a newborn. Which I think was really thoughtful. And so then they – She saw us right out of the maternity suite. But there was a woman downstairs, in labour [laugh]. She’d obviously just come in with her partner. And we’re leaving, with just a suitcase, and obviously crying. And just their faces – like staring at us. And I thought ‘oh god, couldn’t you just’ – you know, we decided – Well we thought it would be best to leave in the middle of the night, because not as many people would be around, so we wouldn’t have to actually deal with many other people. And I felt awful, because downstairs is where people do the ultrasounds. And you have to walk out through the same part as where they do all the ultrasounds are. And we thought well at two o’clock in the morning it’ll be, you know, no one would be there. But there was this woman downstairs in labour, with her husband, and their Mum. And you know, they just – all just stared at us agog, as we went past. Yeah. And then that was – that was it.

We agreed, we decided we wanted to have a partial post-mortem.

Right.

Because – Originally we thought oh, no – look, there’s no – we’re not going to do any post-mortem, what’s the point? There’s no – What’s the point to it? But someone actually said to us, “Well, if you think about having another one, you’ll want to know it’s something that’s not going to happen again. Otherwise that will then play on your mind the whole time.” And although we hadn’t decided for sure whether we would try again afterwards or not, we thought it would be better to know, in case we did.

So we decided on a partial post-mortem. Which is something that once again the hospital talked to us about all the different options that were available to us. And so we needed all the bloods to make sure that it was, you know – they just wanted it, to test all my blood work as well.

And then the last thing we had to do was get the post-mortem results.

That was done by my consultant at [town]. So then. Yeah, so we met the consultant at [town]. And she went through all the findings with us. And frustratingly, it was – it was technically inconclusive.

Right.

And they said – We were warned that that could be the case, it could just be there was no particular reason. But they did note that he’d had an unusually long umbilical cord. And that where they know that the placenta wasn’t functioning – well, not – they said the blood flow wasn’t getting through fantastically well.

So the consensus was that there had been an issue with the fact that his umbilical cord was so long, that maybe there had been a knot, or – although there was no physical knots at the time, that there may have been like it could have been tied round, or it – you know – that it had been somehow like, you know, that the blood flow wasn’t getting through because of – just due to the length of it. And apparently the pathologist had never seen one that long on a baby that early. So, so yeah, they said it would be unusually long at a full term birth, let alone at that stage, so. That was the, that was the conclusion. And that it would – the chances of it ever happening again, were we to go on and have another baby, were very, very slim.

And how did you start thinking about having another baby?

So we – we talked about it. Because my husband was really unsure. Because we hadn’t actually planned to have a third baby. So that was, that was the big thing. Obviously we’ve got two older children. We hadn’t planned to have, have our son in the first place. But we then got used to this idea we were having another baby. You know, got – My son was very excited about being a big brother. My daughter was very excited about having a baby in the house. And I’d got used to it. And this idea, and this – you know – We knew we had all this baby stuff we’d collected up. Although it was stored away now. And, and eventually we did decide. And I say eventually, it was – you know – In terms of actual time, it wasn’t very long. But obviously when you’re going through this grief period, it does feel like ages.

I decided, you know – Or we decided. I said to my husband, like “I do want to have another baby, if we – if you’re okay with that.” And he said that yeah, he – because he’d got used to the idea as well. And so we decided we would try again. So when we – We spoke to our consultant. Because we wanted to make sure – we decided that we basically – we would wait until we got the post-mortem results.

Because if it had turned out it was something to do with my anaemia, or my thyroid, or anything like that, then we wouldn’t want to risk it again. Because there was no way we were ever going to go through – we didn’t want to do that again. So it would very much depend on the outcome of the, of the post-mortem results. And so when we found out it was something that was very unlikely to ever happen again, you know – she said the odds were completely in our favour, and that we would – she would fully expect us to go on and be able to have another healthy baby. So we were told to give a, to give it three cycles, at least. To make sure I had three full cycles. Because I was a bit hit and miss, as you can be after you have a baby. And that’s something as well, that I don’t think people really think about too much, is actually you have just had a baby. And you do have to have that recovery period.

And then, then the bereavement midwife, she did come round. And she talked about funeral options. Because we were given, we were given the chance to have a funeral as well. So the [town] hospital organised it all with one of the local – I think it’s [funeral director], or someone nearby, who do their ones. And we had a free funeral, a free cremation. They paid, they just organised it all. There’s – We talked to the – Well we had to wait for the post-mortem to be done. And we knew – And like every time anything happened, they did phone us and let us know. Like they – Because I was always worried like where he was. And I knew he had to go to [2nd town], for the post-mortem. And so they – she said “Just to let you know he’s gone to, he’s at [2nd town] now. And I will let you know when he’s come back now.”

And so then I was always told where he was. So it wasn’t just a case of – he wasn’t just a body being moved round, he was still very much treated like my baby. And then once the post-mortem had been completed, we were told that we could make it – given that options for dates, for the cremation. Because they do – at [town] crematorium, every – I think it’s the first Wednesday of every month, they have three slots in the morning for stillborn babies.

So, we chose one – actually, the only one that we could do, without having to then wait for a whole other month, because of my husband’s birthday. But they said, “Well we can try and do – we’ll see if we can get one – you know, we’ll do the next month.” But we thought well no, it’s just – it’s just making things longer and longer and longer. And as I said, we thought it was just good to get – hit these milestones. We felt like there was a certain amount of hurdles that we had to go through, in order to then start like healing afterwards.

And this was the next hurdle. This was the next hurdle. And we didn’t want to put it off for another four weeks. And we knew the kids needed it. We knew they needed to deal with it. And so my husband said, “I don’t care, it’s not like I’m going to be celebrating anyway.” So it’s, so we did. We had the funeral on, at the crematorium.

So we went in for the scan. And I always feel terrible, because there was a trainee doctor doing it. And I think she was desperately trying to find a heartbeat. And then the ultrasound technician actually came, and she went “Oh, I’ll take over.” And then she, she said the words – which my husband he will never ever forget, is that she said “There has been fetal death.” And that’s how she described it. But then I said to him, I said “Well how? You know, there’s no other way she was going to say it, how could – how else could you break that news to somebody?” And that was at – and that was just – Yeah, that was at twenty – just over twenty – about twenty two and a half weeks. And so yeah, they said yeah, there’s no chance, he was definitely – definitely dead. And that the fluid had started to drain away. Things like that. So they knew it was definitely a no-go.

And it was decided that I would be better off obviously having a vaginal delivery, being induced. Because I’ve had children before, they said you’re pretty much – it’d be almost like a kick-starter for my body. I could either wait to go into labour naturally, which I – you know, I would eventually. Or they could induce me. We decided, because it was going to be easier to organise looking after – care for the other children as well – to go in and be induced on a particular day. And so we went back into hospital the next day. Where I was given oral tablet. And just go in, they went through, and then the bereavement midwife met me there, us there, and talked to us about what was going to happen again. Like really felt very well supported, all the way through. They really were really, really good. Then we were told to come back on the Sunday. So we went – The scan was on the Thursday. The – I took the oral tablet on the Friday. We were told to come back in Sunday. Now no one ever really tells you that that is the worst bit. That bit in between, where you know that your baby is dead, and you are waiting to go and be induced. And I was at home with my kids. And it’s just like there was this whole – this was the elephant in the room, literally. It’s like – but everyone knew I was there, with a dead baby in me [laugh]. Which was, you know, it was just the worst. And it felt like the hours dragged and dragged. I just wanted to kind of get it done quickly. But [town] hospital have a special suite for people who know they’re delivering stillborn or dead babies. So we were told we were going to be able to use that suite. We were asked to phone – We were meant to be going about ten o’clock in the morning, but we were asked to phone ahead, just to makes sure that nobody else was in the room. Because the idea is that you can stay in there for as long as possible. So they needed to make sure the previous person had, you know, finished using the room. So it was – It was a horrible thing actually to think also, we were turning up as soon as someone else had left, someone else had just done the same thing as us.

And we were given options – you know – what we wanted to do. And we decided that we didn’t want to see him straight away. Which I felt kind of bad about. But then it’s, you know, because obviously usually – my other two, as soon as they were born, you’re the first person to hold them and see them afterwards. But I wasn’t – I was really worried about what he would look like. Because we knew at that point that he’d been dead for about a week. So I was really scared that he would – that I wouldn’t – You know, that I would be scared of what he looked like. So we decided – So we gave birth – When I gave birth, we won’t look at him. We just kept our eyes closed the whole time. And the midwife took him. There was a little side room with a sliding door. And she took him in there. And she cleaned him up, and – and dressed him. Obviously had these – They provided these clothes and things. But actually my Mum had made a small cardigan for him, because she knits. So we dressed – She had him dressed. And we asked for the midwife to make a decision about whether we would see him afterwards or not. And whether she thought that it was wise for us to see him afterwards.

And she said “I think,” she went “No, I think – you know, he’s absolutely fine. You should, you know, you could see him.” So then my husband and I – he – I asked him to go first. So he went first. And then they brought him out in – They put him in one of the cold cots. Which is something that’s very odd as well, because you never think about picking up a cold baby. Really cold baby. That’s something that’s very strange. Because obviously every other baby I’ve had or held has always been a warm baby.

And that’s a very – That’s something we didn’t, I didn’t think about beforehand. Literally like taking something out of a fridge. It was that cold. And then we were allowed to spend as much time with him as possible. And I really appreciated the fact that actually everyone there – everyone at the hospital treated us like we had had a stillborn baby. And that was something that I think made a massive – I found afterwards, there’s a massive difference between my experience and a lot of other people, other people I’ve spoken to when I’ve been to – We went to a bereavement, a bereavement group.

And I knew a lot of other people who’d had babies similar time as us, similar week. But had been treated – you know – not badly, but they felt that they had been treated as if they’d had a miscarriage. Whereas actually I felt – We very much felt like they had treated us as if we’d had a stillborn baby. Even though that wasn’t the medical, you know, time. Then – But the midwives, well they provided everything for us that they would for a stillborn baby. So because he couldn’t get a birth certificate because, you know, ten days short of his twenty four weeks.

But they actually made a small – they have a small birth certificate, which they gave to us. And the midwife did his handprints and footprints for us. Which was lovely. And we were allowed to spend as much time in the room as we wanted. And we did actually have a few family members – grandparents – who actually came, came up and saw him. And they were allowed to come and go as, as and when they wanted. And, yeah. We got to spend as much time. And the doctor came in, and we had to sign forms to do with post-mortem.