Yes, so that was great. But I do wonder actually because it, it came just at the right time that I was able to go there and kind of unload stuff and I think I unloaded quite a bit of the kind of reserve anger that you kind of have there, about why should this have happened to me, you know, why couldn’t I have had a normal birth and all the rest of it if there is such thing. But you know, what I mean the aftermath was so kind of overwhelming really, that at the time you just work through it, and its only afterwards you kind of think, you know, you stamp your foot a bit and say that was really unfair, that happened to me. You know, and so I was able to do all of that with, with the counsellor then, just at the time I needed it. But I kind of think now, if I’d had to, if I hadn’t have seen her and I had to have waited for however many months it was, how much more severe my symptoms might have got, you know. So that, that concerns me actually that there wasn’t anything you know, more easily accessible, easily available. And although as I say the health visitor had been the one who suggested it way, way back when. I almost kind of think that its still, there’s quite a lot of hoops to jump through to get something. You know, as I say I was lucky that there was a different, there as an alternative route that I could go down and that may not have been on offer to a lot of people, you know, and you know, it does, you know, make me wonder really.

And did that counselling help? I mean did it help tackle those symptoms and the anxiety?

Yes, certainly the, the first counsellor I saw, I think it tackled more really because I think it did have an effect over the actual PTSD type things, they definitely diminished, but I think it actually made me realise that you know, I hadn’t been talking to anybody about it at all, you know, apart from obviously briefly to the, to the few people who were actually immediately involved in it. I tended to not really go over stuff because it almost seemed so enormous, you know, that you don’t want to, to start to talk about how big it was to people who, particularly people that you know, you know, who are part of it as well. And so I do feel that there was other stuff. You know, there was other stuff I was able to deal with through the counselling that I wasn’t even aware really that I had been kind of back, you know, putting on the back shelf really. And I think that’s the thing that you know, I’m glad I did that at that time, and had I left it, I think it would have been potentially more damaging in the long run to have just not, not unburdened some of that stuff, you know. So it was, you know, it was the PTSD that was bothering me initially, but actually I got other stuff out of it, other than just dealing with those kind of symptoms. Because I do, you know, I mean there’s a fact that the whole thing about birth is strange until you’ve done it the once anyway. The whole thing is slightly nightmarish and unreal and all the rest of it, and then on top of that you’ve got you know, a set of circumstances that are really testing you in terms of the issues that you have to deal with. So I think that certainly, there certainly needs to be a stronger recognition of how, I think those things, as I say you do put them on the back burner, because your priority is to get on with looking after your child, and that is why you, you know, you wanted to have a child in the first place is to do those things. But in the meantime there’s all this bubbling away that you’ve just had to leave sitting there, you know, so I do think that you know, it’s important that there may be something more proactive really in recognising that those, those things are really better dealt with nearer the time than left you know.

So do you think you would have liked counselling sooner than the six months?

Yes, I think so. Yes. I mean I do think now that, because in reality she was, she was more like one actually when I actually started.

Okay.

And I think that, I think even if it wasn’t something that wasn’t as much as formal as counselling something more like having, just having, I don’t know it sounds silly, to have the opportunity to go along and moan a bit, kind of Because all the normal groups that are open to new parents, they just weren’t the right forums for me to start I mean I did go to NCT stuff. I was a NCT member, but you know people were talking about things that had happened and you know the usual sharing and all the rest of it, and I felt like I could say nothing, because it was so ridiculous what had happened to me. Well I would have silenced the group if I had even mentioned any of it. So the kind of things that they were mentioning that were bothering them, I was just thinking, try dying in childbirth, you know, I felt like I was so out of, out of kilter with their experiences. So the things that were bothering me were so extreme that there wasn’t a forum for me to discuss it.

So I think that, I think that it’s more that really. It’s more the peculiarity of it. And

I remember saying, Could I see the baby? And they were like, Well it’s going to be a while or You know, they weren’t saying no, but they were saying, we need to get you sorted out first you know, and me just thinking, okay fair enough. Can I see Because I was very, very hooked up, I didn’t really know what to, but I had lots of IV and stuff and I didn’t actually feel that much pain, presumably because I was very, very heavily drugged but I didn’t, you know, clearly didn’t feel like kind of sitting up or going anywhere or anything like that. So I remember just kind of going in and out of consciousness, not consciousness but sleep I think really for quite, quite a period.

Okay and when did things start to get a little bit clearer?

Well it must have been, I suppose it must have been some time later that day. I’m not entirely certain how long I was actually in the, the ICU bit, because I did get moved kind of out of the most kind of serious bit into the kind of, I suppose the recovery part of ICU. And again I kind of woke up there, so I’m not quite sure, you know, whether or not I had come round more in the, in the really serious bit of ICU or whether they just kind of figured that things had stabilised or whatever and then moved me out you know.

I remember them coming round and being in more of a say, like I say what seemed to be more like a recovery area. Still had kind of IV stuff and being a bit hooked up, but there being more, you know, it being lighter and there being more people about, me being able to sit up, have a cup of tea I think. And just there being kind of, then at that point there was more kind of fully fledged conversations about what had happened and the consultant came to see me, and explained and so it was kind of dropping into place in my head as to what had actually happened.

And it’s funny because I don’t remember kicking up a huge amount of fuss because I remember just thinking, yes, I can see why, you know, what I mean, I just remember thinking, they’re in an impossible situation. I’m hooked up to all this stuff I can’t go anywhere else. So they only solution for me would have been for me to be able to bring her there and that was just not, not on the cards kind of thing. And I mean there was, I mean obviously being around other people in Intensive Care we were there with like loads of complex serious things, that’s what it’s about. We were also looking around thinking well, yes obviously, you’re not going to you know, bring a baby kind of thing.

In the meantime I don’t know who it was that decided this, but they allowed me to go back to maternity in order the [daughter] could come out of the special baby unit and before in fact [partner] took her home. So we spent a day in the maternity unit. They later on transferred me and it was physically, you know, two buildings away. It was a bit of a palaver you know. It was one of those things isn’t it.

So when did they start to emerge those symptoms? How long after it was it?

It was probably around the first six, seven months mark, yes, it was within the first year.

And so did you pursue counselling?

Yes, I mean what I actually did was, I did go to the GP, the normal referral type route and they were fine and did a referral, but of course there’s always a waiting list, a waiting time, and in the mean time I’d been attending the local children’s centre. Because I was, you know, doing full time [daughter] care and luckily they had, like drop in counsellor… and I just thought, well while I’m waiting for my proper appointment’ why don’t I go and see the drop in counsellor, because I just felt like that was the time that I needed to speak to somebody and I was potentially going to wait another four months or something for an appointment. In fact it was less than that, but they always say worst case scenario.

So in the mean time I went into see the drop in who funnily enough kept, she was like kept apologising because she was like a trainee counsellor, and this was kind of part her training and in the event was actually better than the real counsellor that I saw down the line [laughs]. Which I thought was highly amusing. But she was great. And because may be it was based at the Children’s Centre, it was based in that environment and she was obviously there to speak to you know, new mums and new partners about issues around having had a child and then I turned up with like this really extreme thing that’s happened [laughs].

And so it was incredibly useful, you know, and also because it’s fairly opened ended, because it was not oh your six weeks up and that’s it. She was just like, you know, as long as she was there and she was offering it, you know, as long as you can come come, kind of think. [Daughter] was young enough that she just used to fall asleep in the pram in the corner. It was quite sweet really [laughs]. So it was quite funny.

Describe to me waking up Intensive Care.

Well you initially wake up and just feel like you’re coming out of a very, very heavy dream. Very heavy sleep. So it kind of seems like maybe, you’re still dreaming because the whole thing is very strange obviously. So I felt like my, my immediate feeling that I was kind of in a bit of a tunnel. It seemed really dark. I think it is, I think the lighting is you know, very subdued and everything. But that kind of obviously going to sleep in a very bright theatre with lots of hubbub and not a huge amount of noise, but a lot of activity and light and then waking up and clearly not being in the same place. Because obviously when you initially wake you just assume you’ve only just gone out and you’ve come round.

But of course I woke up just thinking really, like thick head, and thinking, you know, this is really dark and then, you know, immediately just said, How’s the baby? Because as far as I was concerned it was like minutes ago, you know, so It took a good few minutes. I mean somebody was there immediately, somebody was there. You know, right away. But and that, and that person I think I had the same person actually through, through the time I was there, who was a chap who I still to this day don’t remember his name which is awful but he was wonderful and he was immediately very calmly telling me You’re okay, you’ve had to have a bit of an operation. You’re the baby’s fine, but you are in Intensive Care and you know He was just kind of going through the motions of very calmly telling me. And then started asking me certain things about did I feel, you know, presumably checking me over. You know, and I remember saying, Oh can I have a drink of water. And things like that, you know, just so but just gradually computing as to what, what’s happening and I think I probably asked again, Are you sure the baby’s okay. Because I suppose what was immediately dawning on me was that something serious must have happened to me.