Then I did go to see a doctor, one of the female doctors at the practice and she was quite good in that I said, I think, at some point but not now because I can’t cope with it, I’d like to see a counsellor.

Hmm.

And it was about 18 months after my daughter had died, I had about four appointments [with a counsellor] and she, I mean she knew I also had been a counsellor as well and she said, Well, you know, do you think you need another visit? And I said, I think I can get by but I would like to come for a visit before the inquest. And now the practice doesn’t have counsellors, you have to see somebody in the mental health team, or an occupational therapist, so I thought I don’t want to go down that road. But there is a website on the computer which is; and it’s a wonderful paper, post-traumatic stress, which a health authority on Tyneside have produced. And it actually was very good. I read it once, I read it twice actually, because it had in what I would expect it to have in but it was almost like, what was helpful to me was the permission given if you like, the permission given for having this feeling of wanting to be isolated because it’s just too painful to sometimes get in, into conversations where inevitably things will come up where you almost like have to pretend that you haven’t lost a child or you haven’t had a death or…

Hmm.

It’s just, it’s just you don’t want to send your energy sideways doing that.

Hmm. So you, you really prefer to be on your own for a while? Quite, quite isolated?

Only because of the options that weren’t available. I would have preferred to have seen a, a psychotherapist or a counsellor where I was paying but I didn’t have the money to do that.

So the person who was there [at the inquest] from the papers, even though she’d been told to approach me through the solicitor, did come up to me, because we didn’t have a proper room to sit in. So I had to sit in the corridor when we weren’t sort of in session.

Hmm.

On some of the days, not all of the days. And this day she came up, very respectfully I have to say, and said to me, Would I be interested in doing an article? It was for the Guardian actually. And I said that I wouldn’t be interested doing anything until after the inquest and that there were several other inquests to come. And I was being respectful that anything that I said might compromise or involve inevitably the situation. So she said to me, Do you mean such a body, such a body? So I said to her, I didn’t mention any names and I wouldn’t like to do anything at this point. But if you’d like to give me your card, then when it’s the appropriate time, I would contact you. Which I did do actually ages after the inquest, only because she’d been respectful.

Hmm.

And I think that’s important. And I had been told, I was asked through INQUEST if I would do an article, as well. Obviously I did a, I did a statement after the inquest, which was to go out via my solicitor.

Yes.

To all people who could access my statement.

I’m just so it’ so important to me that my daughter has dignity in death.

Yes of course.

And to me dignity is about not raking her up again all the time. Because it’s important that, how can I put it? To me it’s important that I don’t let anyone hurt her.

Yes.

That’s what is important.

Hmm.

That nobody hurts her.

Hmm.

So, so that part of her whether it’s her photograph or her name or whatever, they’re not put out for people to pick over.

No.

And, and that’s her right and privilege. And it, as one reporter said to me, Well what harm can she come to she’s dead now? And I said, If that’s what you believe I’ve nothing else to say. I mean that, that’s sort of takes your breath away.

Yes.

Ohhh. Takes your breath away. But actually he also said, My advice to you, is if you say nothing, what you don’t say, people will invent. And I thought, Well that’s up to their creativity. I’m not joining in.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm.

So that’s why when we did the statement after the inquest that was done with my solicitor there. And we faxed that, she faxed that straight through to INQUEST, to go out to the media.

Hmm.

You know so they had got something. And, and then they showed me before it and the person at INQUEST, the organisation had put part of my statement as part of the article. And the article was beautifully written for the cause [to improve things in prison and prevent other suicides].

And it was very important to me how she was dressed and everything, in the colours that she liked, the silver, and she got a full-length coat.And like a, not suede, like suede effect, it was suede actually, with fur lining.

Hmm.

Not real fur, obviously. And silver velvet trousers. And I can remember, she always wanted to wear something of mine.Even though I would buy her a dressing gown the same, she would want to wear mine.

Hmm.

So I took my socks off and put my socks on her.

Did you do all that at the funeral parlour? Is that where you did that?

I gave those things to the man to put on.

Yeah.

And then my engagement ring, it was a fire opal set in diamonds and that was to come to her, she knew that. And the last time we were together she said, Oh mum, I’m so glad you’ve still got that ring. And there was part of me at the time that thought, Oh just give her it. And then I thought, She’ll only give it away within the week.

Hmm.

You know. And I want her to have it

Hmm.

but the, you know, the way that she is at the moment, she would give it away. So, her hands were bigger than mine so obviously that was to go to her. So that was important to me as well, that she had that. And there was a little diamond missing so I took it into the jewellers and said, Could you have this ready for tomorrow because the funeral directors wanted everything she was to be dressed in and they did it for me overnight. They were very good. And they, the funeral directors said, Well it’s actually, we’ll have to put it on her little finger.

Hmm.

You know. No. Is that right? Her hands were bigger. It was on her little finger.

Probably the little finger

Yeah, it’s on her little finger.

Did she have an open coffin?

The one thing I didn’t think to choose was the colour of the lining.I chose the, the wood that I thought she would like and everything but I didn’t choose the colour of her, the lining. And I would have chosen ivory or cream and it actually was white.I’ve got a lovely photograph, it may sound, it may sound quite bizarre but it was very important to have a photograph of her in there, and of me with her.

Hmm.

Well, not so much me but my hand on her forehead. On her brow. And so there is a photo of that. I asked the funeral lady to take that.

Was it an open coffin at the, at the service? At the funeral?

No.

No.

The lid was on.

But it was for you.

But people could see her when she was in here. They could go and see her in the chapel of rest at the funeral director’s when she came here. When I say here, I mean, I don’t mean in this house

Locally.

I mean, locally. It was hard choosing the things because when I went [shopping] it was just before Christmas and when I went it was so important that I got the right things for her. There would be her

Hmm.

… and I thought I want her to feel warm and it’s important to me that she feels protected. So I got a full-length coat.

Hmm.

There was another one that was slightly lighter that she would have loved to wear, it’s a jacket and that also was in a slightly lighter colour, almost a cream, whereas the one I’ve got is in a like a very light tan, with a cream, creamy brown lining. I’ll show you the photo.

The next morning there was a knock on the door. I think it was about half nine or ten oclockish. And the door was still locked from the night before and I came down and said, Who is it? And nobody answered. So I said that again and they said, It’s the police. So I opened the door and let them in. And just to explain my house here, you step straight into the living area.

And there were two policemen and there was a younger policeman, and the chap behind him. And the younger policeman the person in front of me said, Are you the mother of ..? And he said my daughter’s name. And I said, Yes. And then in the next few words, he said that she died. And his one foot was still on the matting and he was standing right in front of me. And I can remember that. I can I can’t remember actually too much about what exactly I did then. But I do know that I was standing there and I could see his mouth moving, but he was talking too fast for me to understand what he was saying. And then I can remember that I started to go very hot and shaky and sweating. And I said to him, I can see your mouth moving but I can’t hear what you’re saying. And I said to him, Would you like to sit down? And he said, No, would you, would you like to sit down? And I just sort of

Hmm.

collapsed on the settee really. This, well I say collapsed, sat down on the settee. The fellow behind him was an older policeman and he was very quiet. And he came and sat somewhere near to the settee. He pulled up a dining chair and sat near to the settee, quite near to me. But it was the young policeman that was still talking. And he said, he told me that my daughter had died in prison. And I didn’t know that she was in prison. I’d never been to a prison. I didn’t know anything about prison. And he said, We have we have, we’ve brought you the telephone numbers and addresses of her boyfriend and his father. And you can, if you’d like to write them down. And I just couldn’t it was like I, my arms couldn’t move. So I said, I’m afraid I can’t write them.

Of course. What a shock. Would you like to have a break?

And I said, Can you write it down for me?

Hm.

It’s still written in my diary in his writing

I’m sorry that must’ve been such a shock to be told that.

So I said, Well where is she now, where is she is now?

How long is it since you’d last seen her or ?

It was a while but let me tell you

Yes.

I said, Where is she now? Because that’s the important thing I must get to her. And he said, I can find out where, where she is or where the body is. I can’t remember what she said. And, and I’ll let you know. And I said, I must get to her now.

Hm. Did he take you?

No.They said, the older policeman said, we’re he was asking me who my next of kin was really. And I said, Well my son. And the younger policeman went outside. I think at that point I can’t remember, if it was then that they, that they rang through and told me that she was in the mortuary, at the hospital. And I said, I must get there, I must get to her.

Hmm.

But I couldn’t stop shaking. And the older policeman said, Oh we’ll make you a cup of tea. So he made a cup of tea. And then he was asking me of course lots of questions about, about her and was that, would that have been an important day, you know, the day that she died. Would that I can remember that he said, Was that significant in anyway? And I can remember saying, Well it is now isn’t it?

Yes. What I’d like to talk about is that when a death happens, when there is a death, a sudden death, a sudden and unexpected death, that that’s a shock to everyone anyway.When it’s a child or a sibling, or partner or whatever, they predecease you, that’s a shock in itself. So that’s a different layer.

Hmm.

And then, if the people who die appear to have had a hand in their own death, that’s another layer of shock.And the next layer, I guess, is a very profound layer as well, which is if the person is actually incarcerated at the time, if that person’s in custody, in a way that’s, it’s worse than the worse possible nightmare is to how a death could or might happen.

Hmm.

If you sub, subsequently find out that the person had been put in isolation against their will, that’s something that just doesn’t bear thinking about.