I worry about my other children. We, we worry as mothers about the stranger; we worry about the road. And now I have, I have a, awful, dreadful fear of one of them doing the same. My young son was seen by a group called Jigsaw, who go into the school and they, they deal with children and bereavement. And the lady that sees him thinks that, feels that he needs to see a medical, a doctor, so Hannes is going to be seen by the children’s psychiatrist because he’s suppressing, he’s trying to block it all out whereas he should talk about it openly.

Who suggested Jigsaw?

It was by CAMHS, by the crisis team because they deal specifically with children
Yes.

with bereavement.

So, an, an individual person from Jigsaw met your son?

Went into the school, just played with him and then just asked him sort appropriate questions, and talked about the girls [who died]. But she felt that he was trying to suppress his feelings and she says it’s, it’s not healthy, not a healthy thing because later on, in years to come, these could explode. And that’s how I feel about anti-depressants, I feel that, and as I said to my doctor, I never asked him for anti-depressants and I, he wouldn’t give them to me. And I said to him, I’m not depressed, I’m grieving

I went back to work at the right time. I went back its five months after Anna died, seven months after Izzy died and it’s only less than nine months that Izzy died and seven for Anna so it still early days.

Yes.

it’s still very early days. But I think I went back at the right time. I was sitting around the kitchen table, day after day, night after night, with the two photographs of the girls. I started smoking again which I hadn’t smoked for 25 years. And the kitchen table was becoming a shrine. And I thought, Oh I can’t go on living thi.

And going back to work, I did it at the right time. And going back to what I do best and it’s to look after other people being a mum you look after people. And I’ve always been a nurse and it’s, that’s just part of me that is me. Obviously I can’t talk about other people, how they cope. I can’t talk about how I can’t tell you how to grieve. I can only talk about my experiences. And people keep saying, You’re very strong But as I say before by helping others, it makes you stronger.

I’ve always had great respect for the police although Izzy didn’t [laughs]. My daughter wants Jenny wants to join the police force, always has done. I’ve always had great respect for the police. They were incredibly sensitive, very sensitive and very supportive. At Anna’s funeral they stopped all the traffic, because it was a huge cortege, plus a horse drawnThey’ve been very, very sensitive understanding you know they deal with suicides everyday. They deal with people’s distress, you know accident, murders, deaths they deal with everyday.

And they were very I. I will always remember that young police officer saying to me when I found Izzy and he just said, All I want to do is to give you a cuddle[laughs].

Did he feel he could?

And I just said, No, I’m okay, I’m all right But he I think if he cuddled me I would’ve broken down then.

Did you actually go and see either of the girls’ bodies after they died?

Oh gosh, yes.

Was that a good thing to do?

For me oh absolutely for me, totally. I dressed, I put my wedding veil on Izzy and quite a bit of jewellery and all her bits and pieces. And we had a coffin. The coroner said to me because Izzy had been there for a few days she there was quite a bit she was decomposing. And they advised us not to see her. And I said, No But my sister who, who organised all the funerals, said,don’t worry, don’t worry, Kate we you know, we will make her presentable

So you did look at her?

Oh yes she had lots of makeup on.

Hmm.

And we had her home the night before and we had an open coffin. And because there were so many of her friends who couldn’t we had the church service in one part where we live and we had a horse drawn carriage and the actual cemetery was a few miles away. And we knew with Izzy’s friends they couldn’t get to the church and then get to cemetery. So the night before Anna’s Izzy’s funeral, we had her in the front room. We had lots of candles and flowers. We closed the coffin and we invited them all round and they were all outside the house about thirty, forty of her friends. And the minister came and we pulled the curtains and we just said prayers.

And my, my one of my sister’s work for an undertaker’s and she arranged all of Izzy’s funeral. And so I just said to her just do the same for Anna. We had the white horses and the white carriage and the white coffins.And Anna’s buried with Izzy.

You were talking about the importance for you of arranging the funeral and burial as you wanted?

I thinkit is important because it’s the last thing that you can do for your loved ones. it’s was the last thing I could do for Izzy and Anna. And I couldn’t arrange their weddings. I couldn’t do that. Izzy has my wedding veil and Anna had my wedding dress.And we all wrote letters and put everything into their coffins. We had them home the night before.And I wanted them home, I wanted them to come home.

Was that a family tradition, has your family always done that?

We did it for my mother when she died in ’98. And we all found it was, it was helpful that we could all say what we wanted to say. And not just a quick five minute in the undertakers when my dad died in 1980. It was a very, you know a quick viewing and then you’re off again. And I think having them home helped us. I know a lot of people it’s not for them, but I didn’t want a quick funeral. I didn’t want a quick service.And neither of the girls wanted to be cremated and I didn’t want to be I don’t want to be cremated. And it was helpful that we could take our time and have them home and do what we wanted to do. And it helped so much in that finally parting, that final goodbye.

You said you wanted to say something about this post-traumatic stress counselling.

I still have flashbacks to the time when I found Izzy and also when the, when the police came to tell me about Anna. You know, that, that was horrific. So I still have those, that is an, also a flashback of the time. And my therapy, therapist has suggested for me to go a post-traumatic stress clinic which is at a local hospital, which I shall be going to in a couple of months. It doesn’t take the images away, the images will always be there. But they soften them so they’re less, they’re not so overwhelming, because they, at, at his moment they’re just too overwhelming and, and they can just come. You know, I can be thinking about things and all of a sudden I’d, I’d see Izzy and I’m back to that time and I’m back to that time when the police came. So, hopefully, it will help.

You haven’t been yet?

No, I haven’t been yet. But it, it’s just, until this actually happens, a suicide in the family, people don’t realise the utter devastation that is left when a person commits suicide. I know the person that is thinking about it thinks, Oh gosh, you know, I can’t go on. I can’t do this and nobody loves me and I’m not, I’m not worth, I’m not worth anything, nobody will miss me [airplane noise] and I’m so bad. I’m this and I’m that and I’ve caused my parents so much trouble and my girlfriend/boyfriend, you know, they, you know, it’s not fair and I’m going to teach them But it’s final, it’s, death is final.

I don’t feel, until you’re actually involved in suicide, you don’t realise how frequent it is. And I don’t feel that there is enough support given to the families. it’s still a taboo subject. While I was on this site, I found a group that’s based in America called Parents of Suicide. And it was founded in 1998 by a mum whod lost her daughter two years previously. And at the moment there’s over 700 members. When I joined I was 696 and I think there’s about 730 members now. And I’ve known other people whove lost their loved ones to suicide and I’ve mentioned about this suicide site, Parents of Suicide. And I joined, I joined this group. You pay a very, very high price to join, not financial but And I receive about 80 – 100 emails a day. And from all different mums, all over the world’ Australia, Africa, France, quite a few in England [um] America, lots and, most of them are in America. And a lot of their children; it’s gunshot (, or hanging. And we can talk, by email. I haven’t yet, yet got into the chat room, because of the time difference. But I’m just very basic on the, on the computer, so, I can do emails, just.

Do they support you?

Very much so. And it’s therapy. it’s, it’s my therapy of reading other people’s emails. There’s lots that you delete, lots of them you don’t read. But every now and again you just get one little snippet, one little Ah’, that, that’s so true, by other people’s experiences. They write about their experiences and what they do. And I’ve actually found that more beneficial than going to therapy, going to the family psychotherapy, because I’m talking to other mums, I’m talking to other families. Because they know what I’m feeling, they know the feelings. The therapists, they’re just going by the textbook, ask this question, ask that question, what’s the response? But I’ve found that this Parents of Suicide’ has been, has saved me. Has kept me on this earth. And in, the one remark that was said to me, quite a few months ago when I was feeling very, very, very low, and I was in a very, very dark place, very dark place, was that I can’t, can’t look after the dead I can only look after the living. And it, that was a kick up the backside for me, that sort of, yeah, I can’t look after Izzy and Anna anymore.

Was that somebody on the website?

Yes. Yeah, it was, it was the mum in the east of England who lost her son a few years ago.

And at nine oclock Jenny was in the front office, the front room where we have our computer, and she said, Mum there’s a police car outside Oh okay. And shortly afterwards the two policemen knocked at the door and I knew. And they I said, What’s happened, whats happened And they said, Can we come inside I said, Who is it, is it, is it Anna or Emily And he said, Annalis And I said, She’s dead isn’t she And they said, Yes, she, she was found hanging by her friend And they brought me into the kitchen and sat me down and, and began to shake, my hands were shaking. And it Jenny was dreadfully upset, crying, screaming. She phoned for my friend to come back. She phoned for my nephew to come. And I was just shaking so much.

How were the police with you?

The police were trying to comfort me. They were trying to talk to me but I couldn’t speak to anybody. People came in and they spoke to me and I knew they were there but I just couldn’t, I couldn’t speak. All I was doing was shaking so much. My like there’s just
I’m sure.

And then my friend she screamed at me, Kate cry, just cry, scream And I couldn’t so they phoned for the doctor. The doctor came and he tried to administer some valium but I couldn’t take it. And he said that I was turning blue, I was not breathing. I was not hyperventilating.

Hmm.

I was just not breathing. And then they phoned for an ambulance and an ambulance came. And I remember them trying to give me oxygen and trying valium but I just couldn’t take it. And they just whizzed me off to A&E, where they kept trying and now I know what it feels like with patient’s oxygen mask you, you actually feel as though you’re suffocating with this mask on.But they finally they couldn’t give any injection because I was shaking so much. So they finally sort of managed to get some valium in to me. And after about forty minutes or so, I was able I was calm.

I finished my shift. I came home and Jenny said, Mum, I’m so worried about Izzy. She’s not answering her phone. She should have gone to work today So I said, Ohh, she’s fine, leave her. She’s probably, you know what’s Izzy, she’s goes off for a few days and she comes back. And the more you try and hold on to them, put reins on them, the more they break away And I said, Oh, she’ll be all right, don’t worry I was a little bit concerned but, because she, she would never miss work because she loved it so much.

Sunday, I was working a long day and I was looking after another very sick patient. And I came home, 8 oclock, and Jenny said to me again, Mum, I’m really worried about Izzy. She’s just not answering her phone. I’ve been round to her flat twice today. The light is on She said, I know she’s in there. I know she’s in there She said, I’m going to go round again So I said, Well, I’ll come with you

We drove round. We could see the light was on. We rang the doorbell. And then one of her neighbours who holds the pass-key came and he said he would open the door. And as he opened the door, it was double locked, and as he opened it, the chain was on. And he had difficulty pushing the door.

And then Jenny screamed and said, Mum. Izzy, Izzy’s footI tried to get the chain, trying to get my fingers to the chain. Could see her foot was there. I could see that Izzy was dead, just by her foot because of the, lividity of, in her foot. That’s the blood that’s drained.

We managed to break the door but not the door completely, just the frame and we were able to push the door open just slightly, but it was just enough for me to get my head, arm and shoulder through the door. And I could, and I looked and I, I knew what I was going to find and I found Izzy hanging. She was, she was kneeling, partially kneeling and just hanging. And her head was dropped forward and I could see that she’d been dead for a few days.

She [Izzy] worked with her cousin and he’s in his forties. And he told us that he phoned her on the Thursday and said to Izzy that one of her colleagues, a chap had gassed himself in the car, carbon monoxide poisoning on the Monday. And he had an argument with his wife and he had a three month old son and he just went off and did this. And, and Izzy was so upset, so upset. And when she found this out, she mentioned it and Anna said that she mentioned it a few times when they were sitting up drinking, how upset she was over this colleague’s death. And so I think all of this going on and Izzy was very, very drunk.

Hmm.

And the post mortem she hadtwo and half times over legal limit alcohol.

Hmm.

And I, I kept saying she wouldn’t have done this, she was drunk. She didn’t mean to do it. She keeps saying sorry.

Izzy was very, very drunk. She didn’t know what she was doing. It was a spur of the moment thing. She left no note. She probably just wanted to go to sleep or she was trying. I don’t we never know, we never know. But I knew that she didn’t want to do it. Anna did leave a note. She left a 28 page note. And it was the break-up of her relationship with her boyfriend and the death of Izzy. But what finally, finally as she said was the last straw was somebody stole her computer from her flat, that was on Christmas day. And she had all her pictures and all her work and everything and she said somebody broke not broke in but had keys and went into her flat and took her computer. And she said it was all my lifetime, all my everything was on that computer.