We touched on the subject once about reconstruction and I think the nurse said, I’m not sure whether they do much for men John anywa she said, I’m sure if you ask they probably coul. But I wouldn’t bother Kate. To me that’s more surgery. And it’s not as though I’m a young fella you know, I’m not running round on a beach six months out of the year, you know. I certainly wouldn’t bother with that you know.

So you’ve not got plans to work as an Australian lifeguard or(laugh)?

(laugh) No, no. So no that wouldn’t bother me. No, I was a little bit, the first time I sort of stripped off on holiday, yeah I felt a little bit awkward you could, like everything else, you feel people are looking, you know. I’m sure they wasn’t. But after a while my grand-daughter God bless her, come on Grand-dad, come in the waterlying ther after a while I looked around and no, I just accept it now. I mean I’ve still got what I call a good tan in that area from the radiotherapy. So it does stand out a little bit, but they assure me that, well it is, it’s going quite quickly now. But apart from that you know, the scar is almost non-existent. Until you actually realise that I’ve only got one nipple you’d, probably have a job, you know, you wouldn’t notice it type of thing.

And you know, you don’t feel differently about yourself as a man having you know, had, I mean did that, obviously it must have provoked a few thoughts when it first happened, but,

WellI don’t, I don’t think so, I, you know, it’s been said, well I’ve told you – that stripping off on holiday and that. At times I still feel different, from the next chap purely because as far as I know he’s got two nipples and I’ve only got one, which brings me back to what I said to you about the ladies, it must be devastating for, you know, two women to be sitting, she’s got two boobs – you’ve only got one, you know, fortunately you don’t know, but I’m still stripping off. it’s unbelievable, don’t know how they cope with it to tell you the truth.

Cos you said yourself before, that you know when you’d first seen your scar that that gave you quite a shock?

Yeah, I would, as I say, I was a little bit annoyed and ungrateful, I had very mixed feelings, because like I said to you, I thought well, bloody hell, a couple of weeks ago the only thing I’d got was a flat nipple. And now look at me, you know. All round (inaudible) tubes coming out of it and – but, you know that passes and the ungratefulness passes and you know. So
You felt like…?

But at times occasionally you do feel a little bit different, but I think it’s, you know, probably psychological or more than actual you know physical side of it. I mean, when you do strip off on holiday, I’m sure people, they don’t have the time, they don’t notice I shouldn’t think, but, to you, you know, you wouldn’t think people, whereas a lady, you would obviously if she was walking round topless, with one boob and not the other one, I mean it would stand out like a sore thumb type of thing. But no, no, apart from, as I say, just occasionally I just feel slightly different, than you know that passes- you put your shirt back ont passes (Laughs).

And earlier on you were saying about your friend who’d felt more comfortable about calling it chest cancer and you had to… men’s breast cancer and use the phrase male breast cancer. Some people have, some of the men that we’ve talked to have not liked the term male breast cancer because they think well, nobody says female breast cancer, so why should you say male breast cancer, but I wondered if you had any views about you know what

Not really.

How it should be referred to?

But I always make a point of saying – when I tell people, I always say – male breast cancer. That’s a good point actually I don’t know why I do, but I always do, whether I think they’re gonna think they’ve misheard me or something you know.

Yeah.

(whisper)He’s got breast cancer So I always make a point of saying male breast cancer actually, but don’t ask me why I don’t know.

Because we’ve had you know, a little bit, thinking about what best to call the site, as I say – a couple of the men haven’t liked male breast and some of them think, well no, you need to say male breast cancer because otherwise people don’t realise

I suppose we don’t refer to our, as breasts normally do we, it’s chest, ladies’ boobs, you know breasts, boobs whatever, but men it’s chest isn’t it, sobut no, no, I’d say, I go out of my way to, to mention male breast cancer, whether it helps or not, I don’t know.

Well my story, I think it’s a little bizarre in a way, Kate the problem as I call it, started, I call it a problem because breast cancer was the furthest thing from my mind when the problem, as I call it, started. I was in the bathroom, stripped off for a shower or something, and I happened to look in the mirror and I thought, that right nipple, it seemed to be slightly smaller and flatter than the other one. But, being a male I took no notice. Two or three days later, another look, I said honestly I took no notice whatsoever. I don’t know what was going on inside my brain, what I thought it was, I haven’t got a clue. Anyway a few weeks passed, and I said to my wife one night, we were getting undressed ready to go to bed, and I says, Look at that nipple compared with that on. And, Oh my Go she said you need that checked ou. [name] works at the hospital so she, you know. So being a male, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah ok love o.

And had you been well up until that point you’d had no, no other symptoms?

No problems whatsoever, Kate. The surgeon, he asked me, he said, any pain, any discharge or anythin. You know. And with hindsight, but I didn’t realise it at the time as I say, I think there may have been a slight discharge because some mornings I used to get up and it was a little bit crusty, but I think I put it down to, oh a bit of dry skin or something. In fact, I think for a while I used to put cream on it to, you know, dry skin. But with hindsight it may have been a slight discharge, but I mean it wasn’t you know, my pyjamas wasn’t soaked or anything like that. But that was the only thing, but as I say I John never put two and two together at all.

The next morning she says, John I’m telling you, you need to get that checked just to be on the safe side. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway what I didn’t know was, she’d told my daughter, and a couple of nights later, a lovely summer’s evening, I was out cutting the back lawn. And I’d got my shirt off, and my daughter came down the back path and, straight away she said, Dad, that wants looking at, she says because I’m telling you straight men can get breast cancer as well as women. So I says, Yeah ok love, ok. Anyway she kept on to me all that night, Dad are you going to go to the doctors and have that looked at? I said, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I’ll tell you a funny story attached to this part, in a moment So, a couple of more weeks probably passed and they kept on to me and I have to go to the GP’s surgery periodically to have my blood pressure checked. So the practice nurse, I said to my wife and my daughter, I says, To keep you two quiet, I says next time I go to see the nurse, I’ll show her see what she thinks. Anyway a few weeks later I had to go for a blood pressure check, and, the nurse, smashing girl, you know you ok, blah blah blah ok, yeah I says, When you’ve taken my blood pressure I want to show you something see whether it’s worth bothering the doctor with.

So anyway she took me blood pressure you know, that’s fine. She’s now what’s the problem? So I undid me shirt and I says, Look at that nipple compared with that one So she says, Well ok she says, Jump up on the bed and she pressed and what you called it, (cough) and I’ll never forget she says John she says I think to be safe we’ll get the doctor to have a look at that, just to be on the safe side. And it still never registered big time that it was something serious you know. I think I thoroughly expected the doctor to say, you know, that’s, that’s fine that’s no problem. Anyway she made an appointment to see my GP, [name of GP] and I went a few days later. And she, you know she says, You’re a bit concerned about one of your nipples John she says Let me have a look. She had a look, up on the bed, pressed you know, felt, by this time, the nipple had gone a little bit on the hard side compared with the other one, but it still no. So anyway she says John she says, to be safe, I think we’ll send you to the hospital and get the hospital to have a look at that. So I says, Ok [name of GP] ok. Anyway she says, I’ll see to it and the hospital will be in touch with you. Anyway I was home about two hours from the GP’s surgery and the telephone rang and it was the hospital. Mr (Name) you saw your GP this morning. So I said, Yes that’s right. She said, Well I’ve got an appointment for you. And then something just slightly, I thought well, My God that’s very quick, you know for a hospital, normally you make an appointment and you don’t see anyone for six months or something like that. Ok, fair enough.

So anyway she gave me the appointment, and it still never registered with me, this sounds bizarre as I say, I don’t know what was going on in my mind, certainly not breast cancer, and my wife did say that she says John, she says you know, are you prepared for what you might be told at the hospital? Hmmm you know. So anyway the appointment came around and we went to the hospital, saw the surgeon, he examined me and I went for a core biopsy and mammogram, whatyou ladies have. And he said, you know, Ok we’ll be in touch with you. The following week I went back and it was then that one of the consultants said, We’ve examined your core biopsy and we’ve found that some of the cells are cancerous. And it wasn’t until then that I have breast cancer. And I’ll be quite honest I just bit my lip and looked at my wife and I didn’t know what to think or say, or, or anything.

I’m on tamoxifen.

Tamoxifen, yeah.

For five years. But, well they, they cause me a few problems so I, there again I tend to understand ladies and hot flushes, and night sweats, sometimes I’ll wake up in the night and my wife will say, you ok. I’ll say God I’m sweating, it’s pouring out of m, o she says that’s the night sweats type of thin, you know. But no, Kate, no, I’ve been fine apart from say the tamoxifen which they tell me I’ve got to take for five years.

And you were saying that the tamoxifen you get the night sweats and things, did, did you, did they talk you through some of the possible side effects of the tamoxifen?

Yeah they told me, they told me, I forget who it was now, it might have been, it may have been one of the breast care nurses, but, she was dead on, she knew, she’s obviously dealt with women with breast cancer.

And then she you know different things and she went on to explain about the tamoxifen. She said, You ma, seemingly it’s a female hormone or something that’s in tamoxifen, she says You may experience hot flushes now and again and night sweat. And she was right. (laugh) which are a pain in the bum. Then again, like I said earlier on , I’m pretty sure what ladies are going through, you know, all of a sudden for some reason you think phew, God, it’s hot in here. I’ve got to go out for fresh air. You know it’s, but ..

Yeah. And have you had any other side effects from the treatment, or from the tamoxifen?

Not that I know of, Kate I’ve, I’ve put a bit of weight on, and I don’t know whether it’s the GP or the nurse, I think they mention that it could be the tablets, you know. it’s probably putting the weight on, plus, you know, as I say, I sleep a lot better since I’ve had cancer, God knows where that’s come from, and I probably eat a bit better, so whether it’s a combination, or whether, it’s easier just to blame the tablets (laugh). For the spreading waistline (laugh). Although I’ve got a theory about that, I read an article once where female hormones in men, too many, you tend to get a spreading waistline, whether you heard it, whether I’m talking a load of rot, but I thought well I must have slightly more female hormones than the average chap.

Yeah.

So that’s why my waist is spreading’ and (laugh) – so I don’t know. You’re going to say what a load of hooey (laugh)

No, not at all.

But no, Kate, to answer your question, no, no problem at all, I mean, I complained about the night sweats and the hot flushes but they’re not a major problem, you know I can go for weeks, in actual fact I haven’t had a hot flush for quite a while to be quite honest..

But I havemixed feelings telling other people actually.

Is that because you’ve got cancer or because you’ve got breast cancer?

I don’t know, I don’t know love, I wanted people to know, we’ve got some great friends across the road and I phoned them up actually and I said can you come over I want to see yo, you know. I couldn’t tell them over the phone. And you know, they came over, but other people, I mean, we’ve got marvellous neighbours you know, I wanted them to know, but sometimes I had the feeling people were probably a little bit embarrassed that I’d told them. I got the impression sometimes you know, what you telling me for? What do you want me to do or say?’ Well I don’t mean that in a nasty way. So certain people I did, I found it difficult you know, it was kind of brushed aside you know. So
And again, do you think people were uncomfortable because they were sorry to hear that you had canceror
Yeah well with hindsight, with hindsight maybe
Yeah. Or do you think again, for a lot of people it was perhaps the first time they’d heard of men having breast cancer was it and so do you think part of their reaction was to do that?

No, I think with hindsight one or two people I can think of in particular, I think you know they did genuinely feel sorry for me – they didn’t know what to say, it’s like when you lose someone you know – someone’s died you know, what do you say oh I’m sorr you know. Of course you’re sorry they’ve gone. But, one or two people I did, I thought I wish I hadn’t said anything actually, even though I want everybody to know, men do get it, type of thing. But, as I say, occasionally I wished I hadn’t had said anything. But, you know
And that’s because you were having to deal with their discomfort or just…

Yeah whether you know, I think well you know should I have said anything? Or, you know, have I caused them embarrassment, they don’t know what to say, or they don’t know how to reactbut getting back to your original question, I remember telling my sister and the first words out of her mouth were, oh my God I didn’t know a man could get it