And then how did feelings change over the years, it’s a number of years now but how have feelings changed over that time?

Well you feel you’ve heard it a hundred times, but you don’t forget it, you learn to live with it, but you don’t ever forget it, I don’t know how I’d react if I actually saw the boys [the killers] now, I really don’t. I’d like to think I’d be cool and calm and walk away from it, but I wouldn’t guarantee that.

How do you, how has life changed as a result of this terrible event? How would you sum it up? What it’s done to your lives?

Aah. I think, there’s nothing major there, but it’s lot of little things like when we go to bed at night, you know, we bolt and lock and bolt and lock all the doors, things like making sure all the windows are shut, we’re very safety conscious now, and it would never have bothered me before, but if I’m going down the lane or something, I always look down there first and see what I can see. And I always keep looking back to see whos behind me. So it does make you like that. And when my, there’s a little row of shops up the road there, and when my wife goes up the shops, not that I keep a time on her, but if she’s not back in ten minutes, I just start worrying about her. So it does have an affect like that on you, definitely.

Definitely.

She’s got no time limits or anything, but if she’s more than ten minutes then I start worrying about her.

So did the police give you the opportunity of you making your point of view about whether or not they should have parole or not. Were you allowed to make any comments?

Yes we could, yes we could do as much representative work as we wanted to, but I wrote no end of letters to the Parole Board, but at the end of the day they just don’t listen anyway.

Oh.

No. They don’t
You are given the opportunity to write to the Parole Board?

Well you can, you can, which I did, I wrote many, many letters, but it didn’t make no difference, they’ve got, I think on one occasion I think they didn’t grant parole maybe as a result of my letters I did, but the next time he got it so.

So what were you mainly saying in your letters?

The fact about his previous reputation, even the police turned round to us and said that when he comes out of prison he’ll do it again.

Oh.

And that was like the basis of, well one of them anyway.

You were recommending that they wouldn’t be let out for another few years.

That’s right, that’s right.

The Police Liaison Officers were absolutely brilliant, they treated us so well, they looked after us as though we were part of their family, and even after we moved down to Wales, they still used to pop down and see us occasionally, if they’d see us out in the street, they’d stop and have a chat with us. They were very good, they handled the case very sensitively. I’ve got nothing but praise for them.

And then they kept you up to date over the years while the young men have been in prison.

Yes, yes they did, and they kept in touch with us for many years, in fact it’s only since we moved down here that we’ve actually lost touch with them, but anything that was going on in the prisons they thought we needed to know they would tell us, and they were telling us before probation services were telling us. They handled the case very well, and I’ve no complaints at all with them.

It was 18th September 1992, the boys had gone over to a youth centre, this was about half past ten, they knew they had had to be back by half past ten. My wife and I were just about to go to bed and actually got ready for bed, we were actually in bed, knowing the boys would be home any moment, then we received a phone call from one of my sons, saying that the eldest son was being stabbed and beaten up, on waste ground, at the back of our house. We then quickly got dressed and raced over to the waste ground, we met our other son over there, but by the time we got there it was too late, we found our eldest son lying there in a pool of blood.

How awful.

I raced over to him, I tried to get rid of my other son by making him go to ring for an ambulance, my wife was catching up pretty fast, I made her wait because it wasn’t the best of sights to see.

After what seemed like an eternity, the police finally arrived, and at that time the police said, he felt, he thought he could feel the pulse, I couldn’t, I tried, I couldn’t, I’d tried I couldn’t feel a pulse on my son, and about five minutes later the ambulance crew came. We were then taken back round our own home, supported by a couple of police officers who were basically with us. And I suppose about half an hour later they announced he was dead.

Just to go back to that original part, what happened was one of the boys [who killed my son], I should have mentioned it I suppose stole a motor bike and went into the car park where my sons were playing. I think they were kicking a ball around or something, and almost run them over, and what happened at that point was my eldest son who got killed, he went up and kicked the bike and said, What’re you doing, you know, you nearly just run us over And at that point, the boy said, I’m going to get my mate to stab you That’s how it all came about. That’s how he got the murder charge actually.

And over the next sort of days and weeks, what was the family and your reactions then?

David’ Oh, it was, it was really strange because we had a house full of people, with family whod come round, some were very good, some were very helpful and kind, and in the same breath you didn’t want them there, you just wanted to be left on your own to sort it out yourself. But when they did eventually fizzle out, you thought, Well where are they? They’ve all gone now When you know, it just didn’t make any sense. Other things were like, if we wanted to buy a pint of milk or a loaf of bread, you you’d go like 15 miles out of the way because you didn’t want to go shopping locally, and things like that, I can’t explain why, you didn’t want people turning round and say, Oh that’s the one that’s just lost her son You know, you didn’t want that, so we’d go all sorts of places just to get the simplest of products.

How long were you off work for?

David’ About, about three months I think, but would that be right? [turns to wife]

Wife’ Mm. About that.

David’ Yeah, I’m not too sure, about three months. That was very difficult, and I had some good friends at work, but they were too good and like they would wrap me in cotton wool, and I didn’t like that to be honest. You know, You can sit in the office you don’t need to come out And I worked at the airport, and, You don’t need to go out in the airport, just sit in the office all day and I didn’t want that, I wanted to get involved and, but one of the things we used to do was we used to search people’s baggage, and the moment a knife come through on one of the cases, which we showed on the x-ray, everyone would crowd round so that I couldn’t see the knife. And I didn’t like that. And another thing that sticks in my mind was nobody would talk to me about what had happened, and I wanted them to, but the moment somebody did come up and say, I’m sorry to hear about your son I went mad, and I went ballistic at them, What’s it to do with you, none of your business You know I think it was mixed emotions like that, it does, it does take a long time to get over with things like that. And you can’t explain your own reactions. I found it very difficult.