Looking back, do you think there is anything that could’ve prevented this terrible event. Do you think there’s any message for the health professionals at the hospital involved for example?

Yes, I would, I would, as I say I would, I would like them [my son’s hospital colleagues and teachers] to have been in contact with him, just a phone call or something. If somebody could just have been in contact with him, just as a friend, just in a friendly way, I know that doctors have so much to do, and it is difficult, but if somebody had phoned and just said, How are you Matt? You know, What have you been doing at? Just something to make him feel that he was, you know, he still mattered, that people remembered him. As it happened, nothing, and I’m sure part of it was because a large part was because they’re all so busy, I see that from my own daughter and son-in-law, but also, perhaps they feel you mustn’t force people to stay in a profession with, but, I mean his consultant said, I feel sure that your future lies, you know, in medicine. They saw a lot in him, and maybe, I’m not sure, and I think maybe it [the profession of medicine] wasn’t right for him, I don’t know, but he didn’t have a proper chance, I really do think it could’ve helped.

If he’d been made to feel valued?

If he’d been made to feel valued. Because once you have given something up. And then I remember my, oh, my own father, who was born in 1900, long been dead, but he, he had a pretty stern upbringing I think and his own father said to him, When you put your, the Methodist tradition, When you put your hand to the plough never turn back. And my father had, against his own father’s wishes left school at 16 to join the merchant navy because he wanted, this was in the First World War, and he wanted to go and he was too young. So he thought he would go by joining the merchant navy. So he, he always bore in mind what his father had said, and he became a merchant navy captain and the first ever person to become a, an Extra Master.

Mm.

Why am I saying that? Probably because, I was saying that probably because that was sort of the, that was the ethos in which I was brought up, and I never ever said that to the children and I never said that to Matthew, never, and I was supportive, but I’m sure that in one’s own heart, if one gives something up one, you know, a career for which one’s done sort of six years of hard work, he must’ve felt, well lost. He had not, he knew himself perhaps, perhaps he felt himself that he hadn’t, he couldn’t, if he just couldn’t go on at that time, that he really hadn’t given it a try and that everything else he would do, he liked writing, but I think he probably thought this is not the solution.

Mm.

So I think yes, if somebody had, if somebody had just, if somebody in other instances of, for other people like Matt, if somebody just keeps in contact, has somebody somewhere in the university, the, the hospital somewhere to just phone and say, How are you doing, would you like to come up and have a, a drink or something?

Mm.

Make you feel that you mattered. And it might, I don’t know, but it might make a difference. It might make a difference for somebody else.

So you had the funeral which you felt was a bit rushed.

Yes.

Not enough time to think what you really wanted.

Yes. It was. And having to organise [a gathering with food] and everybody does at funerals, I know when people have died from, but to have to organise a meal and things for people, it isn’t that one begrudges you know it’s just something you don’t feel,

No.

You just don’t feel, you know, well up to.

No.

Because any death is, any death of anybody is a traumatic experience I know, but for young people whove been ill, terrible, but for, for a suicide somehow there’s, it’s, I feel it’s harder to come to terms with than any other kind of, there’s no sense of, there can’t be any sense of perhaps relief that maybe some people feel if you’ve had a relative whos been ill for a long time and in pain, there’s, there’s no, there seems to be no sort of, there’s no silver lining in that respect, and no celebration of life as it were.

Did many people come to the meal that you provided afterwards?

Quite a few people did because it was only you know sandwiches and things like that but quite a few people did because they’d come from quite a, you know, quite a way so.

Mm.

Well you have to, you know, it’s only fitting to provide people with [refreshments].

I can see it must be hard to talk.

It was, very, very hard yes. I didn’t, didn’t like that at all. I’d rather just’ve disappeared, but there you are.

Was, was the funeral as you hoped it would be. Was it what you wanted?

I’d never really thought about it, a funeral for one of my children.

No. No.

I have a very strict Methodist upbringing, huh, so it wasn’t really,] it was just at the crematorium, I think it was all, it’s all too quick, you really, you really don’t function properly. The music was as we wished it to be, and, but I I think, sounds a ridiculous thing to say, I don’t know. One wouldn’t want to prolong the agony and have it sort of months later, perhaps we; but a memorial service is, is a bit over the top for so young a person who you know, it probably was the only thing we could’ve done but

You felt it was a bit rushed?

It was rushed, yes. I felt we had to do everything too, too quickly, yes, yes. And, and it was a place that really didn’t have a lot of meaning for us, that was one of the problems I suppose of having moved from where the children had been, we had lived in Scotland for far more years, so in a way it was unfortunate that way but, I don’t suppose there was anything we could’ve changed really in that respect.

And were, were his ashes scattered there?

Yes, now that is something I regret, that was again far too sudden a, far too quick a decision, I can’t remember which of us made that decision, and I wish perhaps we’d had them and thought of somewhere that meant something to Matt and perhaps [er] put them with the tree that we tried to plant in his, in his memory. That was too rushed yes. I don’t, perhaps advice on that would’ve been helpful, I don’t know but

So looking back now, you’d rather have a place where you know his ashes are, is that what you’re saying?

Yes, I think I would. I don’t know whether Colin would but I think I would, we didn’t really want and I don’t think the family, I don’t think our other children wanted a, a grave as such.

So are they scattered amongst the rose bushes or something?

Yes, amongst the rose bushes, which, which I suppose is, it is nice, I can tell myself that you know, living things grow from, you know, just the elements of the soil, so, but I think I would’ve liked, I did keep a, going back to when we, saw his body, when we identified him, I did ask for some of his hair, which I, I planted a, I put a tiny bit of his hair with the tree that we planted, and I still have a little bit, so that, that was just something.

That was nice.

Yes, just something. That was just the only thing I could think of at the time.

Have you used any other way of sort of coping with all this? Did you keep a memory box or have you done anything else at all?

Yes, I have got a memory box and I’ve kept some of the things Matt had. I don’t know if it’s a good thing but his, he had a red filing box and I’ve kept that. And I have got a little book and after [he died] we planted a tree.

Mm.

I write notes from time to time, I used to do it more often. And I don’t do it as often now, and that’s not, and I asked myself recently actually why I did it less often, it would be nice to think that it was because I didn’t need to, I don’t think it is that, when I really, when I feel low, I think I, I say to myself it’s because What’s the point? But I don’t often feel like that, and it’s just, in a strange way it’s I feel I’m communicating with him.

So you write notes to him?

They’re, they’re a mixture. Sometimes they’re just a note about, came today, sometimes I say, came with Henry the dog and, I describe you know, if it’s spring time and whether there are leaves are coming out and what the flowers are around, and I saw a particular bird. Sometimes it’s just like that. Sometimes it has been, I actually do say, Matt, you know.

Do you keep the notes?

Yes I’ve got it in a little book, yes, yes. And sometimes, earlier on I told him when you know new grandchildren had come, because he, he was alive when my daughter had, her first two were born and our sons first daughter was born, but the others have come since, so.

Do you have a spiritual faith that helps you or not?

No, I wish, I want to have. I was brought up as a strict Methodist and I, but it’s a long, a long time ago that I even, I even when I was in the 6th form, I began to question things. I think perhaps I had too much of a, going to church three times a, and I began to question things and it was mostly seeing children, suffering with cancer and things which made me think that you know I can’t reconcile this, I can’t find any answers, so I [sigh], I suppose it, well I, yes I have lost faith and yet there is a small part of me which just occasionally, particularly when I’m out walking and there’s a lovely, lovely day and, and some small part of me, just for fleeting seconds, I think there has to be something more than this, and, then I think perhaps it’s arrogant of man to think that just because we can’t understand it, there isn’t something else, so there is still, there is still some part of me that, well there’s a spiritual dimension to me and there is some part of me which wants it to be a Christian belief. So, I, I go on hoping that, that I might you know, find some faith but…

Mm.

…I don’t know. But I haven’t entirely, I haven’t entirely dismissed it. That’s sounds very silly doesn’t it but

No, does that, does that help you with your

It would help me.

With your loss of Matt, does it help?

Yes it, yes it would help me, it does help me, and I do, I do, I, I, I say a prayer every night, and I, I think why? Why do I? I think of Soames in the Forsyte Saga who, who said, he said his prayers as a sort of insurance policy, just in case there was anyone there. I don’t do that. I don’t think I, that’s not my conscious motivation so I think there has to be still some, there’s still some part of me that, and I sometimes talk to, well, yes I do, I sort of talk to Matt,when I’m in a bit of a quandary about things I sometimes say, Oh I, help me to, you know, go on the right lines. So there, there must be, there is a spiritual dimension.

So you think from the note it was clear that he’d meant to take his own life?

Yes, yes, I do, he started by saying, as I said to you I think earlier, For a long time I feared that there would come a time when the difference between the person I am and the person I’d like to be, would be intolerable. That time has now come. And then he says to us, and to his sister and brother, I love you all, this will cause you pain I know but it shouldn’t. What I have done has relieved me of a great burden which genuinely could not have been lifted any other way. All my love, Matt.

Mm.

And he’d written earlier on in the month, It’s better for me to do this now, whilst I still have some dignity than to prolong the pain. So I think he [the coroner] was perhaps being kind to us to give an open verdict, perhaps he felt that was, I don’t know.

Yes, what I remember, two [police] men, the one in charge I felt was very, very good, I mean, what can one do in such circumstances, he was the one who offered to make the tea, and I, I made it for them. The other one was younger, and I, I’d probably make the same, I thought it was a mistake at the time, it, it was so awful, it was just that my husband said that Matt probably did like to drive quite fast and had once had a minor accident, and I said that he drove into the back of somebody because there was a hold up further on and coming round the bend, this was some holiday somewhere and he went into the back of the car, and it was nothing serious with which, it was what had happened, but the young police officer said, Oh but that is serious, my wife, somebody went into the back of my wife’s car and it’s taken her months to recover, and that’s very sad, it is very sad and I understand that but I, I felt at the time, if he had perhaps had been older and wiser, perhaps he needn’t have said that.

Mm.

It seemed, well it just didn’t seem fitting but I’m sure he didn’t, I’m sure he didn’t mean anything by it but.