Do you have any other ways to release your stress, other than these?

No, not really. Prayers I guess, I pray, and also church.

How about in your daily life? You would pray right?

Ya, pray, and leave it to God.

Nothing other than these?

no, I don’t do any other things.

What about exercises then?

Oh yes, I do exercises. I walk in parks, greet others [chuckle].

Does that help?

Ya, that’s helpful. go shopping, cook, [chuckle]. Make and eat carrot cakes [chuckle].

As someone that has been over in the UK for nine months I think you said. I just wonder whether you feel if that’s played any part in how you feel and what part it it’s played really, being away from home I suppose is what I’m, I’m asking?

Right. When I, as I said when, when I left Portugal I always thought I’m going to leave the panic attacks behind because the whole situation helps. But no. They will travel with you definitely. And the whole anxiety thing will travel with you. But because you’re living a sort of new life when you emigrate, you always think that you no longer have those symptoms and those, you know, and that. The whole, all the problem you think it disappears but eventually it will come just, just give it some time until they settle down and it’s you again. And they will come anyway. I don’t, I don’t think being in the UK triggers more panic attacks. As I say it has good things and it has bad things on the whole thing.

The good things is that I know there’s a better response here in terms of, in terms of doctors and people and even society. On the other hand I don’t have my friends here. I don’t, I have to explain the whole thing to the new people I meet. And certainly the way that people work and how much they work in the UK doesn’t help because you can’t really sort of you can’t say, ‘Can I have just a few minutes more of, you know, of lunch break because, you know, I’m not feeling very well today. You know, you can ask but obviously that’s not the ideal situation, because people commit themselves so much to work here that it becomes difficult. Do you see what I mean? And it, it becomes difficult for instance to be able to go for a wander because it’s, I consider it a more dangerous place to live in because, you know, it’s a bit dangerous out there. So I might not, it might not be a good idea to be a good idea to leave the house and go for a wander which sometimes help just sort or making a panic attack a bit more or making you less anxious. So there are good things and bad things. I suppose there might be, I don’t know, I don’t think I’m in, I’m in a position to say it’s better to be here than in, because Portugals my home. So it, it’s difficult. And I say in terms of response it’s been very good that so far. I know that I’m still waiting to get therapy or to be seen by somebody. But at least I know that these people have dealt with panic attacks before. They know probably exactly what I’m going through. And I can join other groups for instance groups that I’ve mentioned before on the internet. And like minded people I can meet them and talk to them about them about this and it will much easier. So I think yes maybe overall if you want a definite response, maybe overall it’s better to be in UK.

I think I have, I have my things that I do that only I can enjoy. Like I have my nails done every month, it’s my time to feel nice. And I sit there like that, and my friend knows not to speak to me. I just like to enjoy my experience of someone pampering me. And I have my feet done.

And while, while that is expensive to do, but I do work, so that’s why I do it. But I think everybody should find their something. I mean lately I’ve been giving up my pedicures, because I’m teaching myself to do my own pedicures again, and I’m going for massages, neck, shoulders and back massages to kind of take some of the knots out and stuff like that. And I started doing that because I quite like it, and going for infrared sauna and that sort of thing because it’s kind of, nobody can enjoy it like me. And that half an hour, hour and a half is just for me. And in, in order for me to keep myself on, on that equilibrium, I do that religiously. Else what the hell am I working for? Just to pay bills? No, there’s got to be something. I am a clothes-aholic, but I’ve calmed down. That used to be number one, but that can be very disruptive. So it’s not a good one, it’s not a good one.

I s-, I find that if I make time for my voices, a time where I call it a mute conference with myself, if I make time every month, or every week if I’m experiencing a lot of disturbance from them, to hear what they’re saying. Sometimes they have valid comments, sometimes they don’t. But to hear what they’re saying and to talk myself round to the belief that I am right and what they’re saying will actually harm me and it won’t cure whatever issue they say it’s going to cure. Because they’re kind of like the Devil, do you know what I mean? And I can understand when people say, ‘The Devils telling me to, the Devils telling me to. Because it is, it is that kind of, in order to make you feel better you tell me something that, to do that is going to make me feel pain or cause death even, you know. So it’s, it’s giving, giving time out for that along with your own pampering type thing that, it might not even be something like that, it might be you like to paint. Give yourself the right to have three hours to do your painting even. Simple as that.

And the other thing is that when I recognise that something or someone is causing the balance to shake, I address it at its very earliest point, to alert that person to the fact that, ‘You are doing this. It’s making me feel like this, and I need you to stop. If you cannot stop this kind of behaviour, then you’re not the right sort of person to be in my life and you have to go. And I tell people this. And some people think, ‘Who the hell does she think she is?’ No, I’m me and I’m protecting me. This is what I need to do to protect me’

So I went to this group and I thought to myself, ‘Good Lord, I’m quite’ I’m quite sane really’ [laughs]. Most of the time I think I’m a complete nutcase, but these people seemed to be dealing with a lot more than what I’m dealing with, or they were not where I am in terms of making peace with their voices. There were still levels of denial and not understanding where these voices came from or how they were created due to past trauma. And it was quite good because the facilitator, they talked a lot about coming to term, and helping the groups come to terms with it, and understanding what hearing voices are and, you know, the history of hearing voices. And I’m in some extremely good company, which is nice to know.

Some of the greats in the world were voice-hearers. Even though I knew that these people professed to hear a voice, the voice of God, the voice of whoever, I never made the connection with my experience. And that’s wh

So that, kind, that the only thing that changed between I would say 21 and age 30 was that’ 21 being the time I first saw this Mental Health Team, was that’ I kind of fell into writing, like, I’m a writer at the moment, and that gave me a reason to wake up in the morning, and, you know, gave a purpose in my life. So that’s why I think if I hadn’t have had that I think I would have killed myself. So it became a very important thing to me. I didn’t expect to be published or anything like that, it was just the way I kind of coped with the world.

But when I hit 30, I think, you know, people re-assess their lives when they hit, you know, the 3 0 or, you know, age 40 and at age 30 I thought I have to change my life, you know. I can’t continue, you know, this living day-day, because this is just what the psychiatrist was saying, you know, take one day at a time, you know. Taking one day at a time is not really living a life.

So at age 30 I made a lot of huge changes. I’m a Buddhist and that, that, you know, meditation and the kind of challenging negative thinking really helped. And I kind of forced myself to be, to go out more and to do more social gatherings. And just slowly develop my confidence. So I would say since the age of 30 and 36 which is what I am now, my life has been so much better, due to that kind of self-confidence and having, you know, having just the kind of, you know, confidence, helps open so many, so many doors. And just having that belief in yourself and also, you know, having a sense of humour about your situation, it’s really hugely beneficial

Well kind of art gives you your voice back really. You’re very’ very voiceless. You know, you’re demonised in society and you’re kind of are looked down upon within the system. And kind of art gives you, you know, the power to be yourself again really. In a really hugely powerful way, you know, you can recreate, you know, who you are basically. You know, you’re not just a patient you can also be an artist. You can also be a writer and you can, you know, recreate and create such, you know, things like people that other people can connect to as well, so you’re, you’re also, it helps you to communicate with other people. I mean, you know, you could read in the paper, say what the symptoms of say, schizophrenia are, but if you like read it as somebody’s story, you know, where they can kind of feel empathy for you, that’s much more powerful. So that is why art has been, you know, really helpful for me. It’s given me a voice. It has helped to communicate. It has also helped me to be something other than just a patient really.

So anyway still I was suffering. And then this state of affairs carried on. At work when the office post comes in, I open the mail, and anything which my staff can do, I delegate it. Anything complicated I put in a filing cabinet and lock it up. Hoping when I feel better, I can deal with it’

And then my work came to standstill. I used to put them in a filing cabinet and then when I got better I used to do it. The reason I was able to survive, because my superiors were quite pleased with me. They never checked on me.

Is there anything else that helps you manage your, you know, your symptoms?

My talking to myself. I have a complete – yeah, I never mentioned that. I have a complete imaginary life’

OK. So I have imaginary friends. I have , I can’t see them, that’s the main thing. I’m not schizophrenic. I can’t see them. I know they are imaginary and they have their own personalities. We have loads of fun. This can – again sense of humour is a huge part in there. Anything that I can’t have in the real world I tend to sort of get that in my imaginary world. I talk to myself quite a lot. Sometimes it’s actually the other person talking to me, my imaginary friend, but I know it’s the imaginary friend talking to me, but I still like to verbally say it out loud, and I do say it. And I think that’s, that’s actually a, like a constant source of amusement for me that I can switch on any time I want to. I have complete control over that.

And for example, I’m here, sitting in a room, waiting for someone, I have nothing to do. I can just switch it on. And I can spend fifteen, twenty minutes with my mates. And it’s not like, it’s not that easy. It has some sort of mental exercise involved in it. But most of the time, 60, 70, 80% of the times I can switch them on, switch them on and they tend to provide me amusement and this and that. And I’m, for example, I’m feeling really down. I’m feeling like shit. And you know, but I can switch on my imaginary friends and they would throw in a few comments here and there, and be funny, and I have the ability to laugh at myself. That’s one thing, you know, that helps me quite a lot in my depression. And they’ll make a few comments on myself and I would make a few comments on them. And that would, that’s one thing that can lift me up. That’s, that’s a big, big counter – what do you call it? – counter-measure towards depression, I think.

Mm. And how long have you done that for?

I think this has been there since I was about 12, 13. This has been there. This was I think because no-one ever listened to me. I was surrounded by adults in my childhood, most, most of the time. My mum always used to object to all my friends. I did have friends, but there was a limited relationship with them. Cousins were not there that often. I didn’t have many cousins who were my age anyway, they were again quite different age groups. So this, this was as a result of no-one actually listening to me, so I created my own world where people would listen to me.

And you said you’re completely in control of that?

Yes.

So the, the responses of your imaginary friends are responses that you imagine. You make them say what you want them to say?

Yeah, but it’s still funny to me, which is strange. It’s still funny to me, although I’m thinking myself indirectly, but it’s still funny to me’

And I mean, do you think that is something that other people do or do you think it’s something that’s quite unique to you?

No, I think it’s unique. I wouldn’t think any one else. Not many people, I’ve known people do it, but I don’t think many people do it. I think even talking to yourself is probably unique. But that might be a bit more common though. Because I know people babbling to themselves time and again. But I think I do it more than any other person. But this thing, the imaginary friends and, they’re sort of, they are like mood enhancers and also boredom killers, and whatever you want to call them. They can just chip in any moment.

Because I think that, I think, I was going to say being here, but I think it’s, I think it’s an international thing because being here as a black woman, you the perception is that, you know, a white woman is feminine, is frail, needs to be taken care of, needs to be looked after, but some how the feeling is that a black woman is the care giver, is the nurturer, is the person who gives of herself. And that will be professionally, it will be at home, it will be in her local church, it will be wherever you might find yourself and, and so sometimes yes, as a black woman there is this thing that you will cope because you are strong. And because, maybe because you have survived, and because, you know, you come from a long line of Africans who didn’t die in slavery, you are strong. And it’s hard, because there are times when, you know, you want to, I was watching Airline and there was a woman who just got to the end of herself and she threw herself on the floor and just screamed and when she had really screamed her frustration out. She got up, she picked her bag up, she put her hat on and she stood at the desk and she was able to engage. And I looked at that, and I just thought all power to her, because my fear of doing that, and maybe that’s another part of it, it’s expectations as well, because if I do that, I am immediately perceived as mad, as so there is an expectation of a code of behaviour for black women and if you step out of that, it’s a negative. And it’s not that oh my gosh, something is wrong, and I will, you know, see if I can help her. It’s almost like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, panic, panic, horror, horror. Let’s call the police and so I think that, yes, there is this feeling that you have to, you know, the soft mellow side of you, you really do have to just hide away, and you have to cope, you have to manage, you have to be strong.

So is that the code of behaviour?

Yes. Yes.

And whose, who has those expectations?

The society in which we live.

Is that everybody or is that people who are white or is it also within the black community?

I think, because I think, it’s the white community. And I think it comes from yes, I think it comes from the black women being the nurturer and the care giver and even in, you know, during slavery, and even afterwards, when we were still people’s nannies, regardless of what may have been happening in your own home, you still stepped out, you still put your hat on, and you still went to work, you still provided, you know, whatever was coming you were able to deal with it and accept it. And still keep going. And so I think that it’s part of the European imposition on us, but I think that because sometimes we, [inhales] we lose touch with who we are and the definition of who we are and we start to assume a definition imposed.

There is this, there is sometimes this feeling that we are now beginning to expect it of ourselves and that’s part of the reason why I came to leave the country when I did. And met my ex-husband and all that horror started. Because I [sighs] because I do feel, sometimes I do feel, I just want to be feminine. Sometimes I feel, that I do just want to be soft, sometimes I feel that I do just want to be vulnerable, but when I’m soft and vulnerable, what does that mean? And because the strong definition is always resonating in my head, that just doesn’t fit. And then my fear in that, is, in a relationship, allowing the man to be the strong person in that relationship, means that you have to give something up, and how willing are you to give that thing up, so that he can be strong? And yes, it is okay to be soft, to be vulnerable, to be