For me spirituality is about, it’s about love, and it’s about finding love in oneself, and, and I was saying to you that I’d been on a healing journey. And about understanding what had happened, and, you know, forgiving people who you thought had let you down, when they hadn’t because they were doing the best they can. And about letting go, and it was about, it was about principles and values, which were all around, you know, what I wanted to be. I didn’t, if I’d harboured, -if I’d carried on harbouring a grievance against my mum, and not healing my past, you know I think I would have been quite bitter. So it was about going on my journey, and sort of finding ways to understand it, and to accept it.

And having been on that journey what are the core values that you have landed on?

About accepting people for who they are, valuing diversity in people, and just honouring people and their experiences. And not -as much as possible- making judgements on anybody for whatever reason, whether they’re ill, or whether they’re a carer, or whatever. You know. And I know my mum did the best she could, so I appreciate that, and honour that. But I think the other thing is that it’s made me a more, probably a more tolerant person, more understanding.

I don’t know whether I have a religion anymore. I used to, well I’m a Roman Catholic because in Italy everybody is, most people are Roman Catholics anyway, so is Larry actually by the way. But we weren’t practising. I don’t, -I don’t know what I believe in quite honestly. But this was nothing to do with the Alzheimer, it’s sort of an evolution that has happened through the years. You know, as you grow older you question all kinds of things and I do, -what I have found actually was, I used to read a bit, I started with the Observer actually. They used to, -they don’t have it anymore, they used to have a page called The Barefoot Doctor, and he was always citing the Tao and, you know, Eastern philosophy, Buddhism and things. And I found their way of thinking much more helpful. Because they deal with situations, you know, they, like they say, when the tension or the pressure is, -just let yourself go because you will reflate one day, you will float again, you will. You know they have, actually the imagery is quite good. I like the imagery of human situations, you know. So I found that helpful. That is, -it’s not a religion but it’s a spiritual sort of, but I am, I do believe in something, I don’t know what I believe in. I do believe in good, in goodness of people, yes, I believe in something of the, maybe the soul, the mind or something. But it’s not a formal belief. I haven’t got any formal belief really.

So you don’t have a congregation that you get support from?

No. I would go to church sometimes. I do go to church and I sit, because I like the quietness, there is nobody, there is one in [name of place] I quite like the quiet atmosphere. And maybe I light a candle but I don’t know why. It’s just a way of feeling that you’re communicating with the whole of the human family really, basically. It’s a sort of feeling that you are, trying to, to get in touch with the, all the people who, you know, are battling their particular battles. We are all here sort of struggling, aren’t we? We are all strugglers. So that is the sense that, you know, the church makes me feel that maybe I’m in touch. There in the quietness and with, maybe you are sort of touching and reaching out for people who are struggling like you, or people who are not struggling even, it doesn’t matter. So I have that feeling of, -I have a feeling that my congregation is really the human family. I have a feeling that we all belong together in this planet and we are all struggling and we are all sort of trying to get by and to sort of do our best. Well, most of us are anyway. And that is what keeps me going really. I do believe in something but not in any formal thing. So that is not something that would, -but reading about, especially about Eastern philosophy, yes, that’s been helpful to me.

Well, when I attend the meetings and people are scared to do different type of caring. I realise that there was a blessing for me, I realise, a blessing that I’ve got because some people are saying, ‘Oh, it’s very hard and I can’t get any help from this system and I can’t get no form of help and they put things in places and it’s not working and so on and I realise that well, it’s not so hard. It’s hard but it’s not so hard for me, I’ve got that understanding and that peace of mind.

So that makes you luckier then than many of the other carers, or in a better position perhaps?

Well, I might be because I know the God that I am serving so might be that is why I can be at this peace. And the way of the Lord has provided for me, he has came through the situations where I’ve got the papers and the support. I am so blessed and I have to just thank God. That is why I could really share, because if I didn’t know the Lord I couldn’t share because it would, -oh, I was so stressed before I couldn’t share what I’m going through.

Was there a specific time when you felt that the peace, you, you received this peace, was it one incident or was it over a period of time?

Well, it’s over a period of time because while I was going through this situation with my husband as a carer I was not a Christian at that time.

I see.

It is, -I was not committed because before I was attending church but I was not baptised so then when I became baptised and I’ve got a spiritual connection, reading my bible and understanding what is going on in the world and these form of sickness, I realise that the Lord has blessed me and give me the peace of mind I talk about.

So when was that, when was your baptism?

It was a few months, it was in March.

This year?

Yes, this year March.

So it’s relatively recent.

Yes.

How did that feel?

It feel, -it’s a blessing, it’s a blessing to know that you have been saved because what is going on in this world no man can put a stoppage to it, no man. No man can, no matter how much authority you put in place with the police or so on, it’s just, -it won’t stop, it’s just evil continually, evil, evil, evil. Sickness, murders, whatever you can think about. So there must be an end -he’s going to put to this situation, so it’s just spiritual, just spiritual. So that’s, when you got that understanding you have a different, -a peace of mind, you love people more, you’ll understand the system.

In a personal relationship with, -because I feel like, as if God’s sat here with me, he’s here with me all the time, wherever I go I can talk to God. So through prayer, and I believe I can talk to him like I’m talking to you. So, that he’s interested in my everyday life, and then reading the Bible. So I get a lot from scriptures and, if you’re reading it’s like something, you know, just hits you in your face so you can think, ‘Oh wow, that scripture just really speaks to you, gives me a lot of comfort and a lot of peace, and a lot of hope for the future. And then I feel, -like I can read a few lines and think, ‘Wow that’s God speaking to me. Like in Job for example, I was reading it once and it said, ‘Submit to God. No sorry, ‘acquaint yourself with him and be at peace, and surely goodness will come to you. And it was like God, from that I got, yeah, just be with God. Submit to him. ‘God you’re sovereign, you know what you’re doing in this situation, I don’t’, and then I can have peace. And so as I think like that, I can have peace whereas if I was bitter and full of anger I’m not going to have peace. And then going to church, worshiping God being, you know, in praise and thankful for everything I’ve got in my life. So just putting a worship tape on and sometimes, I’m just stood in the kitchen, could have been a horrendous last four or five hours, go in the kitchen, washing up, put the, -a worship tape on and then I’m just, well I’m in God’s presence and everything just slips away. So the past four hours it’s like, ‘Well, God you’ve seen everything. You see what I’m trying to do here, you see I’m trying to do my best and I love you’, and that’s it. And then listening to great teaching as well, being in a church that’s got great teaching and sermons and that I find really helpful. And then being in Christian groups like the Mind and Soul, that’s been really, really good as well, yeah.

And also even my preaching has changed quite a lot, because now I, -after the going, after my going through stuff, after caring for my mum and everything, now I’m very realistic when it comes to preaching. Because when was it, a few, a year ago one of the churches I went, there was this lady, her husband got a heart attack, and he was in hospital, and she was feeling the strain because she, she was working. And it’s not something where she could say like give me a week off, it’s going on for some time, then she’d got two little kids to look after. I was planned to preach in the church, and then I was in to the lady, and she said these things. Now a few years ago I would say, Oh let’s have a time off praye, I would have said, Oh let’s pray about so and so, husband had a heart attack, and God will give us a wife’s strength to look after the husband, she’ll run round the house and everythin. What I did was -a novel idea, I said, Today you’re going to see some answers to prayer, how God’s going to answer some prayers, you’re going to see some miracles happening, are you going to answer a prayer Then I said to the, example about this lady, the actual problem, -now I said, I want a few show of hands, now who is going to man the house while she goes and visits husband in hospital? Who is going to do some shopping for her So many hands went up, I said, There’s your prayer answere, you know, this is it. It’s easy to say, Oh, God do this, do tha, and everything, but according to Christian theology, God is going to use us, through us he’s going to help people. So I said to you earlier I used to be on the Evangelical wing, now I made a great leap to the, -what do you call- liberal wing. Now I tend to think the practical way of helping somebody, so my preaching and theology has taken a great leap forward, five or six forward.

Sikhism, in relation to other religions I am told, and it’s written, it is a religion of equality. When it comes to mental health it is religion of discrimination, of inequality is my experience, might be different from others, but me and my family it is that. Still when we go to the temples you know -my mother is very religious, she’s been brought up in a religious school education, all that and she’s very religious- she has stopped going to the Temple, because people’s negative attitudes, remarks, general bad treatment and I’m not going there anyway, no more, because I can’t stand it.

Would you have gone if it hadn’t been for that treatment?

I would have gone and followed my religion, but I’m not sadly.

Do you feel that the reaction within the community to your mother’s illness has impacted on your religious path?

I get a better experience in my roles that I play at work, I have link to churches, I have link to different denomination, different religions, but my religion, my temples don’t make me feel good. I feel better going to church, I have a better respect and treatment than I would going to one of mine. Sad to say that and I suppose I was na’ve to think all religious places should treat people well. But then again people are people, you can’t change attitudes that easily and our temples are very, what is it, independent. Where the church is controlled from the top down, the temples they have a committee, a local committee and it’s usually men, very rarely women, or people of different age, so where is the equality there?

Do you feel it’s dominated by older men?

Yeah. Older men and men than women and yet people go on about it’ Equality. I don’t think so and if a woman was menstruating she can’t go and pray behind our bible. I know this happens in other cultures as well, but that’s one illustration, the other illustration is who controls it and what services they provide and they raise lots of money for whatever means and not to help the community, not for community support and I have seen nothing for mental health and I’ve been in a position to develop communities in my role. Obviously this is my experience, but it is more than the average person’s, I have more of a birds eye view than the average person, isn’t it?

Well, since I’ve been involved with the Mind and Soul group, and we visited a Church of England and a Methodist church and that, and we had discussion groups with people there as well, and I think it’s the same but slightly different. It may sound silly but, some of them had lost a loved one 30 years ago, that had committed suicide, but they’ve never talked about it. They’ve been in the same church for over 30 years but never talked about it because they don’t think it’s an issue people should talk about. And that’s another thing with me and Adam now he’s, he is a lot better than he was at the beginning. You know, why not talk about mental illness? It’s out there. Hundreds and thousands of people suffer from it. Why has it got this stigma? You know. Why can’t you say, ‘Oh, hi my name’s Adam, I’ve got mental health issues. Or, ‘My husband’s got mental health ‘, because sometimes I think with my friends as well, well some friends or whatever, they don’t like you to talk about it, but it’s part of me. It’s a part, it’s been part of my life, it is part of my life, and you should be allowed to talk about it without people getting scared or thinking, ‘Oh, don’t want to talk about it.