And I – the emotions then, then came through I think. And I said, “No, I want to do it properly. I want to say goodbye.” We hadn’t named them. And we deliberately – we’d given them silly names, but we hadn’t decided on names they were going to have, and we deliberately didn’t name them so that I could still use the names in subsequent times if that was appropriate. But [sigh] I think I rang the chaplaincy centre in the hospital, and they invited us back, and we went for a chat. And I said, “I’ve changed my mind.” And actually the arrangements for that were superb. And the undertakers do it pro bono, so – the arrangements. And we had a very simple service. My parents, [husband’s name]’s parents I think. My sister. And us. It was very simple. Said goodbye. It would have been no more than twenty minutes, twenty five minutes, but beautiful coffins, beautifully done. I was able to stand up and say a few words, just my – you know – which a lot of people couldn’t, but I did and I wanted to, and that’s fine. Said goodbye. And actually it was the best – was right for me, and I – I’m really glad we did that. And really glad that I – came to my senses isn’t right, but. Realised in time, to say, “Actually, I’ve changed my mind.” And, you know, “That’s what I would like to do now.”

I just needed to talk. And a friend, very good friend of mine who happens to be a midwife was expecting a baby. Probably – He was born a fortnight before I lost the twins. So I’d not seen him before I lost the twins. I was in hospital when she had him. And I spoke to her. And she was coming round, because her parents lived near mine. So she was in the area. And she said she’d like to come and see me. You know, but she said, “I’ll come on my own.” I said, “No.” I said, “Please will you bring little one?” And she’s like, “Really?” I said, “Yeah.” And without saying to her, ‘I need to see him, please do bring him’, I – you know – I sort of danced around it a bit and said, “I’d really like -.” And I did want to see the baby.

And I don’t think – Most people I’ve spoken to about this have not really got it. I don’t think even my Mum really got this. She says I’m brave, but she doesn’t really get that I needed to hold another baby, to know that I could [laugh].

Just to know that I wasn’t going to break down every time I saw a baby. And actually, I did. She came, he was beautiful, he was only two, three weeks old. And I held the baby, and I was genuinely – in my heart, I knew I was genuinely pleased for her. It was her third. Genuinely pleased for her beautiful baby. I still could be happy for somebody else, and not let my distress and upset cloud my emotions for other people. That was my problem, my issue, my whatever was going on. It didn’t stop me being happy for somebody else. That was really – again, something I didn’t – you know – I wasn’t expecting. But, that separation of what’s happening to other people and what’s happened to me, I was quite keen that I didn’t want to be miserable or feel miserable about other people’s circumstances just because of what I was going through. So, I. You know, I told her to “Please bring baby.” And she did. And, yeah. I held him. I think I probably broke down afterwards, after she’d gone. And my Mum picked me up, but – caught me, picked me up.

So that post-mortem was organised by [Town B] hospital?

By the hospital, it was.

Okay.

I was asked if I wanted one.

And I very much did. And again, this comes back to sort of understanding what they’re asking, I think.

Because I know other women have felt that they’ve either not been asked, or they haven’t understood and so on, but I – I know the different sort of types of post-mortem and tests and so on that you do, and I said I want – you know – if I’m entitled, please can I have – I’d love to know, I just want to know anything that has gone wrong, please find out for me. And so yes, they did the full, full works. So I’ve got the full post-mortem report of them.

Okay.

And that for me was invaluable. Almost for me to know that there was – Not that the hospital were hiding something, but that there was something that hadn’t been missed. You know, that there wasn’t something on there glaring, that somebody had forgotten to tell me about. I was able to read those post-mortem reports and go actually – chromosomally they were fine, weight, size, everything else, bloods, it was all fine. And you know, there was nothing on there that I could say, “Well they didn’t, they forgot to tell me that bit.” So I was able to then go into subsequent pregnancies or fertility treatment knowing that actually it was unlucky rather than a pregnancy issue.

But yeah, I – I hold to this day that it was my just forcing – forcing the emotions a little bit. Which was a weird thing to do, for me. Because I’m not somebody cries wolf, or – you know – so it was a weird thing for me to do.

But forcing those emotions put me on that – I just got my hand held, and – yeah, as you say it meant that I saw the babies, and. Everything then fitted into place. Think if I’d have walked out of that hospital with nothing in my arms, and trying – being me, being strong at that point. I don’t know when I would have collapsed. I don’t know who would have picked me up. I don’t know. And where I would be now, I don’t know. But I think it worked, because I just got the help at just the right time, so. I think I stayed another night in – and I needed that. I needed physical recovery as well, so [laughing].

Yeah. Yeah.

And I needed another night in that bed before I was strong enough to physically get up and/or walk out of the hospital with nothing in my arms. So.

And of course the nurses were lovely to me, from that moment on. Until then, I think they’d been a little bit too matter of fact. You know, and. They have seen it before, done it lots. But of course it’s the first time for me. First time for us, really. So. So, yeah. That was a valuable lesson. Not for me, but – you know – one that I identified as being, actually.