And I and I think I’d add to that again, by trying to keep trying to keep yourself reasonably strong and not, very easy to say this, to actually carry it out is a different thing but do whatever you can to stay emotionally strong and well, so that you, you know, and sometimes I think it’s easy to think, I can’t hold it all together. And sometimes you won’t be able to hold it all together but just to be aware that you deserve, you know, as a human being, you deserve to actually have some time for yourself and to actually have some nurturing for yourself, whatever that might be, whatever it is, you know, some time out.

If there is somebody else that you can talk to, you know, if it’s just shopping or something that gives you peace or something else to divert attention away from what’s going on. You know, but sometimes it’s kind of easier said than done but they are the sorts of things I think I think I would say and keep trying to talk about it. The young person might not want to talk about it but it’s worth trying to understand what’s going on and try not to be too shocked about what they say and what you see because that might lead them to have other feelings that might lead them not to tell you the next time because if you overreact, you become traumatised by it visibly, you can have a private trauma, but visibly then they are going to have other feelings like guilt and shame and all the rest of it that, you know, won’t help them to actually be able to perhaps talk about it another time. So yeah, I think that’s perhaps it, what I’d say for now.

I think also, looking after yourself, looking after your own sort of mental and physical health is really, really important and I sought help myself and had some had some counselling support. I was fortunate enough to get that from through work because I carried on working, for me work was a very useful distraction from all these things that were going on but it could also be a problem because I struggled to have the emotional energy to cope with work as well as everything that was going on with home. And I spoke to people at work about that and, eventually, got some help and I think I was very, very fortunate with that actually to get that help.

Is there any message that you might want to give to health, social care, emergency services, about the ways they respond and help or don’t help?

Yes, I think theres work to be done there. I think, if we go back to school, because this is going to be fairly prevalent, it’s a fact so theres no point in trying to think that regardless of where you are, a leafy-laned school, sink school, whatever you’d like to call it, theres a likelihood because we know it’s a fact now that theres going to be a number of teenagers self-harming. That is going to happen and these are going to be young people, troubled young people coming in to school with that problem.

I don’t think schools are that that well equipped. I think we were fortunate that we had we had this unit where my son could go and talk to people and they helped him to a degree but they can sign post as well or they can come to me and say, We need some external help for this. So I think something needs to be done there in terms of awareness and is that the right place and is that the right place because have they got the skills to intervene and actually handle that? I’m not sure about that. So it’s about knowing then where to refer and what to do again, without the overreaction.

I don’t think I said this but my son was actually isolated from school in the end because they couldn’t cope and they felt he was influencing other young people because there was a bit of a a bit of a glut if you like of other young people and I thought that was really unfortunate. I know my son viewed that very, very negatively, the fact that he couldn’t go to school and access what everyone else was accessing. So that’s again something that I think needs to be thought through because isolation is the wrong thing and judging and assuming is a wrong thing. To me it’s not the right way of dealing with it. It does need, I think it does need a degree of specialist support.

I still would say, have a look, see what’s there, see what other people are saying, experiencing, what’s helping them, is it changing, is it, you know, particular circumstances that are causing it. Just have a look and see what other people are saying, what other experiences people are having and I think the sort of step-by-step advice about what are often quite common sense things because, at the end of the day, it isn’t the, the answer lies with the young person really and I think that’s it and the family. For the young person, they are making choices and they’re going to make a lot of wrong ones and we can talk to them until were blue in the face and, believe me, we do and some days you think you’re in an, you know, you know, an alternative universe somewhere because, you know, you’re constantly, constantly, constantly on this track of, You know if you do that, that might happen. You know if you do that, that might happen. So think about it, [name] and try not to do it again. Yeah, okay. Happens again the next day [laughs] and it just goes on and on and on.

So in the end, all you can do is, you know, there is good advice and sometimes what that, the thing about going onto the websites is you’re so embroiled in it emotionally, you’re tired and you’re anxious and you have all the other things going on, sometimes to see some detached common sense advice actually does help to clarify certain things in your mind and, Oh yes, I know that makes sense. And it helps you to reinforce things but, at the end of the day, you’ve only got your own resolve and how you can do your best to try to deal with things on an informed basis and I think that helps you to do it on an informed basis.

And were trying to get, you know, were trying to get help for him. Were trying to, you know, hes being counselled a little bit at hes having pastoral care at college. But I think hes just opting out really and just being an extremely difficult person to be around a lot of the time and I’m just kind of hoping that that doesn’t start to manifest itself again with, you know, with more self-harming. If it does, something we have to deal with but I think we, you know, were all trying to find a way. Were all trying to sort of orienteer our way round all these problems without [sighs] with the least possible impact on our son’s sort of sort of, you know, emotional well-being really. And that’s difficult because what you want to do really, what your instinct is often is to get very, very angry, you know. Theres been a lot of angry outbursts lately, quite a bit of shouting, quite a bit of door slamming, storming off and angry text messages and this sort of thing. So that’s another aspect of his young life that were now currently dealing with which is causing problems of its own.

Is that him door slamming or you door slamming?

I think all of us are doing it.

And I just feel as if, you know, there are lots and lots of issues still that are concerning that, as a parent, you can feel that you’re constantly on red alert, I know from my own experience as well that that has led to me becoming very, very stressed and to my husband becoming very stressed.

And us again, dealing with it very differently and perhaps our daughter just feeling resentful, possibly a little neglected maybe and our daughter having troubles of her own at twenty, not having gone to university and trying to secure employment. There are a lot of issues going on for her as well, which all require quite a lot of emotional investment, if you like, which again challenge your reserves and can cause you to become, well, actually, very, very stressed, as I said. So you’re dealing with this stress on a on a daily, weekly basis wondering when if it’s all going to end. And that’s not really how back in the day when I, you know, considered family life, this isn’t really what I’d hoped for but it’s what weve got and, you know, we love our children. We want them to grow up as, well, happy, happy, hopefully happy and well-adjusted individuals. That’s what we want. When we go through periods of instability and unhappiness to the extent that, in my son’s case he has with the self-harming, then you just you just worry and you just feel so anxious that, you know, everything is going to turn out all right in the end.

The police were very good to him. They spoke to him and they told him that this is this is where he needed to be. This is where he was safe. He was protected. He was looked after, although he might feel he hated us, you know. He might he might feel that we hated him, in fact, you know, this was his kind of safe haven, if you like, the place he needed to know he could come back to and not, almost as well, Don’t be so silly, lad. You know, who’s put those clothes on your back? Your mum and your dad have. Of course they don’t hate you, you know, stay here. Sort of thing and we had a bit of a difficult night with him that night and it wasn’t the last time he, he disappeared again after that but he went to a friend’s house and the friend’s mother kept me in touch.

Could you say a bit more about what you called the predisposition to depressive illness in your family and where that comes from?

I think it’s just a clinical, it’s a, it is a clinical thing that was with my grandmother, was with my mother and is obviously, with me, possibly has been passed on.

And how did you know about it in your grandmother and your mother? How did that, what was your experience of that?

Well, I saw it. I witnessed it, you know, and I saw, I’ve seen my mother in very, a very, very depressed state actually. She was unhappy sometimes during my childhood but that was, again, to make the distinction that wasn’t necessarily depression. Later on, in her adult life, she found, she just became I think overwhelmed sometimes by her own emotions and by things that were happening in life. And again, perhaps because of her make-up had a predisposition where in other people it may not cause depression but in my grandmother and my mother and certainly me would cause depression because it becomes, yeah, overwhelming.

And now, in recent months, a boy that he knew from a group of school friends actually did take his own life and our son ended up getting very, very upset, upset doesn’t seem to, you know, it’s not sufficient a word to say. It was just a, for the young people involved it was a really traumatic distressing time and a big shock and they were laying tributes down locally at a sort of , they had like a memorial spot for him. And my son also went to the funeral and there is someone who actually carried this, you know, they actually carried it through and took their own life and I wonder sometimes if my son hasn’t had that awful realisation that that might have been him and that awful realisation that seeing the consequences and the tragedy that, you know, that it really isn’t the answer. And that there are things in life that are worth living for really so maybe, I don’t know, I’m speculating there but maybe that that’s been a big factor in his life as well

I think that having got over the initial shock of it all and kind of hoping that it was a bit of one off, I kind of, we kind of settled into, well, let’s hope that doesn’t happen again or he might, you know, he might be able to sort of come through this. It did happen again and I did overreact and I was angry and I called him a stupid boy. It was it was my own feelings of anger and frustration coming out that he could actually do this to himself and, as his parent, standing by and actually watching that hurt me physically and emotionally, perhaps in a similar way to how it had it had actually hurt my son.

And I can see now, looking at that, that it didn’t help at all and that the advice is right and I think the next time I dealt with it, I just, when I noticed, because again he does try, he has tried to hide it a lot of the time, when I did notice, I just said, Oh, you know, I see there are some marks on your arm again, you know. Do you want to do you want to talk about it? And handled it much better because I do think that if you can if you can try as a parent to contain your own anger and emotions or upset, fear, frustration, sadness. It’s a very, very sad thing. I felt very sad and really sad to see my son suffering physically in this way and finding, you know, finding clothes with blood on them. It’s very, very sad but if you, you know, as a parent, if you can try to put your own emotions aside and not judge as well the young person, I feel that really does help. And that might have helped us to get to a position where my son has been able to be a little more open about this with us. Were a long way from being out of the woods altogether, I would say, but I think were in a different place to where we were.