Kasim’ That’s why we’re saying that we understand that it’s like really. It’s quite expensive yeah, I suppose it is.

Karis’ It is expensive. It is definitely because now I mean..

Kasim’ If you think about it like a draw like £10 ok like £10 every day.

Karis’ £10 a day that’s £50 a week.

Kasim’ That’s like, yeah. Out of the, I get a draw 6 days out of 7 yeah so I spend £60 a week on weed.

So now you are appreciating kind of the expense?

Karis’ The value of, yeah, yeah definitely because now I mean, you know, we both, we both live by ourselves and, you know rent has to be paid [laugh] sort of thing.

Kasim’ Rent, gas, electricity

Karis’ And if I don’t have the money I really don’t have the money. That’s it. I will go without now. Do you know what I mean, whereas obviously before we wasn’t, we wasn’t working or nothing so we’d just take advantage of our parents’ money sort of thing. Do you know what I mean and we knew that we could get it sort of thing so we’d just take advantage of that but now it is completely different.

Kasim’ But now it’s like we wouldn’t like say scrimp and save for a draw.

Karis’ For a draw no, no, no, no.

Kasim’ At the end of the day we’d get our food shopping done out the way and then if there were bills.

Karis’ If there was money left over, you know,

Kasim’ If there’s money left then why not treat yourself to a little draw or something, you know, like

Karis’ On a drink or something like that

Kasim’ But I wouldn’t like say go shopping and be a bit like, like I wouldn’t

Karis’ Hold back on the things that you need sort of thing yeah.

Kasim’ Hold back on the things that I need for weed. I couldn’t do that.

Karis’ No no.

You wouldn’t do that?

Kasim’ I’ve never really understood why I used to do that when I was younger but yeah.

But it’s something that you do every day still? I mean smoking?

Kasim’ Yeah I smoke weed every day. That doesn’t necessarily mean that I buy it every day. As I say like obviously I have friends.

Karis’ It’s around yeah.

Kasim’ It’s around but I have friends like near enough every one of my friends smoke weed so like do you know what I mean if I haven’t got it they have sort of thing. You know, you just like share a spliff or whatever. But yeah it’s like around.

How was the relationship with your family at that time when you were doing…?

Karis:It wasn’t

Kasim’ It wasn’t good at all. It wasn’t great at all because I mean

Karis:Come in from school. Hi. Eat your dinner because you’ve got munchies. Eat out the fridge. You don’t really talk, yeah you don’t really talk to anyone, you know.

Kasim:Then you’re just out, in out, in out. As soon as I’ve got in from school I would

Karis:Just eat, get changed and go straight back out.

Kasim:Just eat, get changed and go back out and my motive was where am I going to get a draw. How am I going to get a draw’?

Karis:But weekly I wouldn’t see my grandmother. What it was is my gran like so, my grandmother would leave for work really early about 7’00. I wouldn’t even be up then because like I’d be up about 8 o’clock to get to school for 9’00. Wouldn’t see her in the morning and when my nan had an evening job so she’d leave for her evening job at 5’00 and I’ll be coming in at 5’00 so I wouldn’t see her weekly at all, like at all. And then when I came in from being out with my friends it would be 12 o’clock at night.

Kasim:So no.

Karis:So I wouldn’t see her throughout the week. I’d try and catch her or like she’d leave me money in the morning like on the table and stuff. And yeah that was me like, that was it. So yeah it wasn’t really a good relationship at all.

No communication?

Kasim:There was no communication, no. I think I wasn’t really worried about my family it was just my friends and when I was going to go and see my friends.

Karis:Friends yeah used to be with friends and what you’re going to do today.

And if your parents, if you’re mum or your gran wanted to talk to you and ask what you were doing, where were you?

Kasim:It would just be like, Just stay out of my business. Like you know, It’s got nothing

Karis:It would be just yeah, yeah very, very hostile sort of thing like, Why do you need, like why do you need to know?’ like. I’m saying, I’m fine’ yeah.

Kasim:Like, You don’t need to tell me I’ll learn from my own mistakes and.

Karis’ Yeah sort of thing. It was very

Kasim:But then I think if I did listen to my mum then I wouldn’t be like where I am today sort of thing, you know. Like she did, alright maybe she didn’t nag and stuff but it was tough love at the end of the day. She was only looking out for me sort of thing, you know. Like obviously I’m her son, she doesn’t want me going down that road where I’m smoking weed and stuff. But at the time when I was smoking weed and stuff it was just going in one ear and out the other. I just thought, Oh you don’t know’ just whatever, I’m not addicted.

Yeah and then you think like, Gosh’ like a change takes place now sort of thing.

Karis: Yeah because it’s not just you, do you know what I mean, you hurt the other people that are around you that care about you and stuff especially when you do isolate yourself and there’s no communication between your family and you’re not talking. And you know it’s not nice for the other people. I realise that now that I’m older. I realise that.

Kasim: Yeah I realise that as well.

Kassim’ Yeah it’s just like a necessity at the end of the day and just like brushing your teeth. Like that’s how it is to me. Like I smoke like near enough every day and I’ve spent so much money on it, like so much money on it. But basically it’s just like you’re just watching your money go up in smoke. And I know it’s easily said and done but I think I could stop smoking if I really wanted to but I don’t think I want to. Like I don’t think it’s that much of a problem for me to stop even though, yeah I do smoke every day but I am still. I think it’s different really, I think if you’re out of work and you, you’re not studying and…

Karis’ It’s easy just to go out, do you know.

Kassim’ It’s easy just to crawl back into your hole.

Karis’ Yeah and just smoke.

Kassim’ And just smoke your life away. But I think if you’ve got a job and if you’ve got a job and you’re studying and you’re like you’re on the straight and narrow and just smoking weed I think it’s fine, do you know what I mean? I think it’s fine, do you know what I mean, but I think if you’re like unemployed and you’re a bum and stuff and you’re smoking weed it’s only going to make you more depressed.

Karis’ Yeah

Kassim’ And I’ve been there and done that and it’s not nice. It’s not nice at all but yeah.

But you said that you would like to stop?

Karis’ I would like to stop. I mean yeah I would I think. In time obviously, do you know what I mean? I mean I have cut down, I have cut down quite a lot actually. There was a point where I was smoking a lot and it got to a point where I could actually see it physically in myself. I lost loads of weight and things like that.

Kasim’ And you just looked constantly…

Karis’ My face was going like

Kasim’ you just looked like a walking zombie like.

Karis’ Yeah, yeah my complexion was just going all, you know, a bit grey and stuff and I just, I did. I looked terrible honestly I did and you know that’s when I thought to myself, Do you know what I’ve got to cut down. And I have cut down but somewhere along the line I would like to. Actually do you know I don’t think stop altogether but yeah definitely cut…

Kasim’ Stop.

Karis’ down, definitely cut down.

Kasim’ Cut down. I don’t think you can just stop. I think you’d have to cut down and then stop.

Karis’ Yeah like I probably, yeah like in the, couple of nights.

Kasim’ Well I think for myself.

Karis’ In the week or you know a weekend thing.

Kasim…or maybe just on a Sunday.

Kasim’ I think with professors and staff a lot of them are very, how could I say it, old fashioned. And they’re not very clued up with drugs in general. They do know a bit about them and stuff but I think maybe. I think maybe I think if we had a drug education in school. Did we?

Karis’ Not really, not anything.

Kasim’ I think we had sex education

Karis’ Yeah but nothing

Kasim’ But that wasn’t even do you know. And I think if we had, I don’t know maybe if they organised something for, organised a person or even, yeah organised a person or a group ofteenagers or something that have been through drug-related experiences and stuff to come into like high school

Karis’ And talk about it, yeah

Kasim’ And talk about it but

Karis’ And talk about it in depth and things

Kasim’ But in a way where the young person can relate to the person they are talking to them about. Because if you, I don’t know, with me because when I was a teaching assistant, a youth worker I found out that a lot of the kids related to me better because of my age and stuff. And I think age does have a big part to play with it because I mean if you’re say, I don’t know, 17, 18 and you’re telling me about weed and stuff it’s just going to go in one ear and out the other.

Karis’ Yeah

Kasim’ Make it fun and make it memorable for the young people. Do you know what I mean like so they can go home and it wouldn’t. Just don’t make it an ordinary boring lesson, you know, like definitely because that would help, that would help a lot if they properly nipped everything on the bud about weed and the side effects and

Karis’ All the effects, yeah

Kasim’ But make it fun like make it fun for them to learn about it. So it’s not just a sit down and oh mister so and so is just waffling on again, you know. Look at him like, do you know what I mean. I think if you make it fun.

Kasim’ With me I feel better opening up to someone. I know this might sound really mad but I feel better opening up to someone that I don’t know, that doesn’t know me at all. So I can tell you everything without like, do you know about…

Karis’ You feeling a bit like…

Kasim’ Me feeling a bit like I have to hold back in case you know this person and that person. But yeah I’d feel more comfortable say opening up to a counsellor about my drug issues than my mother for instance. You know I’d get a better feedback and stuff off them and because they are like professional and stuff they can…

So you will carry on seeing a counsellor?

Karis’ Yes I will carry on, yeah because I mean, you know, you don’t know even for me like when I went to go see her for the first time and like she just asked me a couple of questions and stuff. And like you know, sort of like my thought patterns sort of thing like and stuff like that. Yeah she’s, she could tell you things that you probably didn’t know about yourself. You know things like that and it’s really good because you don’t know until you actually see someone professional, do you know what I mean.

Kasim’ I’m going to I start my hairdressing course 12th of August. Yeah which is good because at the moment I’m not really doing anything. I am on a 13-week course but I haven’t really been attending because I’ve got my college placement myself and that. So I don’t feel the need to go to a course and look for work and like college placement and stuff if I’ve already sorted out my college placement. But in a way I can’t wait to like start my course and stuff because I think then I’ll feel more like level-headed and stuff and like yeah something good will come out of it as well. And because I’m getting older now I’ve been like chopping and changing, chopping and changing like I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I think now I know what I want to do so I think now is the time like, you know, because I know certain people that are my age they still haven’t got a clue of what they want to do in life and stuff. And I just think to myself like. like you need to like know sort of thing because we are getting older and do you know what I mean like.

I think you should have something to fall back on as well because I was going to go back. I used to be a teaching assistant and a youth worker and I was going to go back into it again but I feel that, you know, like I’ve done that. Been there done that. I’ve got like experience. I mean I volunteered for like 5 years and stuff before I started getting paid and stuff. Like volunteered at a young age and stuff and with youth work you can’t get paid until you’re 18. So I volunteered for a while and stuff but yeah like now I know what I want to do I think I’m just going to stick at it and, you know, just better myself really.

Karis’ Stay in school like, you know, put my all in to it sort of thing. Yeah, because with me school was only half-hearted. Well at the end of my school years anyway it was only half-hearted. I went there because I had to not for my own benefit.

Kasim’ Had to yeah.

Karis’ sort of thing. I wasn’t thinking about my own benefit.

Kasim’ But then you got the olders saying, Oh you lot should be studying for your GCSEs and something. It was like, No whatever, just let me learn from myself’, you know, Let me make my own mistakes’ and You learnt from your own mistakes so let me learn from mine. But you know what I wish I’d listened to them now.

Karis’ I say just get your school out of the way first. Just if you can just try and just, don’t smoke, don’t drink just get your education out of the way. It sounds so clich√©d but just get it done. And you know if you want to go and do whatever you want when you’re 16 out of school then, you know, fair play to you but just try and get your work done. Get your grades. They are not that important but they are, do you know what I mean.

And you live in the same area?

Kasim’ Yeah I live in the same area and I’d agree with what she is saying. There’s been like plenty of times I’ve been like say to the shops and seen like maybe like a big group of like lads aged between, even some as young as like 15, 16.

Karis’ Yeah and maybe even 14.

Kasim’ just hanging around street corners and stuff. And like a load of like heroin addicts and like crack addicts like approaching them like wanting their fix sort of thing.

It is quite disturbing to see obviously because no one wants that in their area. Do you know what I mean? You don’t want to walk down a road and see something like that especially if you’re with say your little brothers.

Karis’ You’ve got your little cousin or yeah.

Kasim’ or your little sisters or even family who don’t live in this area.

Karis’ Yeah.

Kasim’ Like my family will come and visit me from Scotland and I will feel ashamed to go certain places in my area because of the high drug and crime rate.

I mean you mentioned the crime rate in the area at the moment?

Kasim’ Basically I feel that it’s jealousy between the other gang members of like who’s making more money and stuff.

Can you do a little bit more again about the kind of problems in the area with the gangs and?

Karis’ Where do I start? I mean well with me like on my estate there’s like a Metropolitan Police. There’s like a little headquarters sort of thing for the estate like the community thing. And to be honest I see at least a car a day to be honest like stopping and searching, you know, kids and whatnot. Like even people looking suspicious in cars, like do you know what I mean, because it is so like. Basically on my estate I think it’s, the highest crime at the moment is car theft.

Kasim’ Yeah I agree.

Karis’ And basically yeah it’s just like. I don’t know probably kids from about 16 up until maybe our age, maybe even 25 maybe like, you know, stealing cars probably to sell for drugs or you know whatever. It’s like things like that so yeah I mean it’s not nice, you know what I mean, every day I’m hearing sirens and, you know, shouting going on or whatever outside and stuff. So yeah.

And the reason why you were doing it. Was it curiosity or was it part of being ?

Kasim’ Do you want to go first?

Karis’ Alright. [sigh] Basically me, I mean I’ve been brought up to know about weed sort of thing. I, I’ve noticed it’s in my, do you know what I mean, in my family. Members of my family smoked it and it was always there. Like, do you know what I mean, I was. Not that I knew what it was obviously side effects and things like that but I knew, you know, if I saw it I would be like, Yeah that’s, you know what I mean, that’s weed.

Kasim’ You knew it wasn’t a cigarette, sort of thing.

Karis’ So I think when I first started smoking it was when basically I moved home. I moved, I moved with my grandmother from my mum’s house and I used to live with my mum and my brother basically. And yeah I moved to my grandmother’s house and I think it was. What it was is my mum was really strict and basically I was tied down so I was a good girl like. I was a good girl but when I moved to my grandmother’s she gave me a bit more leeway, do you know what I mean. And then I started to, you know, experiment.

Kasim’ You were about

Karis’ sort of thing. Yeah and you know, I thought, Yeah I know what weed is. I haven’t tried it before. Let me just try it. And then yeah I started smoking and I’d stay out, you know, until late, you know and things like that. So yeah but and it was curiosity definitely as well obviously, you know I was curious.

But I mean it didn’t interest. To be honest it didn’t interest me, do you know what I mean. It was until I got to high school when, you know, everyone’s like, Yeah, you know.

Kasim’ I think I started smoking weed to block certain things out and because I basically didn’t know a lot. I didn’t really know myself. I didn’t really know myself and stuff and like I think smoking weed like helped me deal with it. And I used to like row with my mum and stuff like that and like I think I was just at an age. I was like 14, 15 so I didn’t really like know who I am and that like who I am and stuff. I didn’t understand who I was at all. I used to just hang around with my friends and smoke weed and stuff. And like obviously it took its toll because I was being different. Like my mum didn’t notice the difference and stuff. And yeah that’s about it really.

Karis’ And you’re not going to because obviously it’s a. Weed is a depressant so you know it kills off your, any motivations. You know what I mean. You don’t want to get up.

Kasim’ And I feel that because I’ve been smoking weed for so long I do feel less motivated as well. I think that’s one of the side effects of it as well. You get more like less motivated to do things. Like see in the morning I can’t just get up and go like I used to like when I was younger before I started smoking weed and stuff it was just like [snap fingers] up out the house, go shopping or whatever.

Karis’ You know what you’ve got to do you get up, yeah go down

Kasim’ But now it’s like, not like I have to smoke a spliff to function but in a way I do. Like I’ll get up in the morning and I’ll feel like more like grumpy and stuff and it will take me a while. Like I’ll be in that morning place for a while and then like I’ll smoke my spliff and like [laugh] I mean.

Karis’ You feel better.

Kasim’ Like I feel better, I feel like I can do more like sort of thing. Because I think because our bodies are so immune to it I feel that like yeah without it you’ll be a bit more grumpy and stuff, you know.

I’Ok. And you?

Karis’ Yeah I agree with [Kasim], I agree really like yeah. I mean the motivation thing for me like that is probably one of the biggest symptoms of smoking weed for me. Like, do you know what I mean, it is hard to get up in the morning and actually I mean sometimes do what you have to do and stuff like that. But then again because we’ve had so much, so many years experience with it we know like what, how it’s affecting us. Do you know what I mean. So I think we can deal with it more quickly. Do you know what I mean?

Ok and how do you feel about the sort of the stop and search?

Karis’ At first I did think it was quite excessive to be honest.

Kasim’ Yeah

Karis’ Because I do know a lot of people that have been stopped and searched that really don’t need to be sort of thing, do you know what I mean.

Kasim’ That don’t fit that category.

Karis’ Yeah but I mean now I think I’ve like looked over it and I think it. You know, the such and such thing it is quite, it’s a necessity I think now definitely.

Kasim’ Especially to keep your community safe as well.

Karis’ Safe yeah definitely.

Kasim’ I think stop-and-search. I think it’s not necessarily a bad thing at all but I have seen like policemen stopping certain people that don’t fit the category that aren’t like

Karis’ They’re not like that at all.

Kasim’ Hoodie jumpers and stuff as well. So I think that’s why some people have [um]

Karis’ It’s the stereotype again it’s the

Kasim’ Yeah it’s the stereotype. I think that’s what some people do have a problem with stop-and-search.

So drug dealers are not necessarily those who fit the stereotype?

Kasim’ No I think, I think a drug dealer to me is like

Karis’ But that’s what I mean yeah it…

Kasim’ Yeah

Karis’ It could be anybody.

Kasim’ They could be anyone.

Karis’ They could be suited and booted.

Kasim’ So that’s why. Yeah, I agree with the stop-and-search.

Karis’ Do you know what I mean yeah the stop-and-search definitely.

Kasim’ I agree with the stop-and-search because the drug dealer doesn’t necessarily have to dress…

Karis’ Have to be in the hoodie and trainers.

Kasim…in the hoodie and tracksuits and stuff. He can drive and like I said drive Mercedes Benz and Range Rovers and stuff and you would never think it. So maybe I think the stop-and-search thing is good because maybe it will like label down crime and put it at a stop.

Kasim’ So yeah I think in school I think there was a lot of pressure to be cool and to smoke cigarettes and stuff because you didn’t want to, I think. What is the word we used? I think it was neak’ or something. You didn’t want to be in with the neakie category who didn’t smoke and stuff. But I think if maybe I hung around with them, the neakes like basically like the people that was just.

Karis’ Put their head down in school yeah who’ve got

Kasim’ I don’t reckon that I would be in this predicament what I’m in now. I reckon I would probably be in uni and stuff and not saying that like I don’t, I’m not out or like I don’t go out of the area or stuff but I’d be. I’d have like different,

Karis’ You’ve got like more potential

Kassim’ more potential and I’d have different sets of people. I’d have like yeah I reckon I would be different but I would be different definitely.

So you say that it’s easy from a cigarette to go and try cannabis?

Kasim’ I think it all boils down to the person. I mean like I can sit here and say, Oh yeah I got in with the wrong crowd and stuff. Yeah that was a part of it but I wouldn’t blame my friends for my actions. Do you know what I mean?

Karis’ Yeah no I mean you can’t. Yeah

Kasim’ I mean you are your own person. Do you know what I mean? I’m not a sheep. Do you know what I mean like I don’t consider myself being a sheep like but I think they do have a big part to play in it. I think they do but it’s not like, they didn’t make me do anything that I didn’t want to do. I chose to do it on my own accord so therefore I have to deal with the consequences at the end of the day. So yeah.

Has your behaviour also changed regarding alcohol, how much alcohol do you take?

Kasim’ Yeah. You know what, before it was like we would all drink to get drunk.

Karis’ How drunk can you get sort of thing, you know.

Kasim’ Yeah but like, you know, spin the bottle and stuff but as we are getting older I feel like you shouldn’t drink to get drunk. You should drink and enjoy the taste of alcohol.

Karis’ Yeah it is, yeah drinking alcohol is sociable.

Kasim’ It’s sociable.

Karis’ It’s meant to be sociable. Drinking at home by yourself is not good, you know. Smoking at home by yourself is not good.

Kasim’ Yeah it’s not good.

Karis’ You know like that is what makes you get depressed and things like that.

Kasim’ But we have definitely cut down.

Karis’ We realise yeah, we realise a lot.

Kasim’ Yeah we realise that we used to drink a lot. And I mean like we still, no do you know what, we used to drink like weekdays and stuff, you know,

Karis’ Yeah nearly every day.

Kasim’ but now it’s just like maybe yeah we’ll have a bottle of wine, we’ll share a bottle of wine on a Saturday. Why not do you know what I mean.

Karis’ Over dinner and stuff like that, yeah

Kasim’ It’s the end of the week like over dinner, stuff like that. But I think you only realise that when you are older that like it’s not good to like drink to get drunk. You know we do get drunk but

Karis’ When you’re young it’s like Friday is here’, do you know what I mean. And you just go, ask someone to get you as much alcohol as you can buy.

Kasim’ Now it’s just you appreciate it more if you’re eating nice good food and you’re having a nice bottle of Ros√© or Blossom Hill to accompany

Karis’ Yeah, accompany your meal.

Kasim’ yeah your meal with you know. But yeah I think my attitude has changed towards alcohol.

Karis’ Towards alcohol, yeah.

Kasim’ I’m not that much of a drinker. I’m getting old now so I can’t be drinking and drinking.