Do you ever see a point when you sleep deteriorates that you might have to do something about it. I mean how bad would it have to be for you to go to the doctors and say I am really not sleeping well?

It would have to be quite bad. I don’t think I would go to the doctor about it. I don’t regard it as an illness or a problem. It is annoying not to sleep. Because one feels one ought to be sleeping because it is a waste of time really just lying there not sleeping, but no – well I would have to be quite bad. Well I mean, I think I do envisage a time, if I was bereaved, if I lost my husband. I would want sleeping tablets. I think I wouldn’t sleep. I know I wouldn’t sleep then.

Wellno, there wasn’t a strict routine at all but I had very bad asthma as a child. So probably I didn’t sleep very well. I have never thought about it actually until you mentioned it this moment but no I got a lot of asthma. I was off school a lot.

Because the treatment then wasn’t so good?

Oh Ephedrine they gave you. They boiled kettles and things. And my Father would spend a lot of time helping me. At night actually. I remember that now. I hadn’t thought. I may have never slept very well.

Although actually when I was about fifteen my asthma sort of stopped until it came back when I was about forty. So I did have some time. But then I had the children so may be there wasn’t, may be in my twenties I slept well.

Can you think back to when this type of sleep you have got now

I think it started with the menopause. Although I think it might have started when I had children. I mean I think once you have children you are much more alert to waking up. I don’t remember before having children having any problems with sleep at all. And then I remember waking up with the children but mostly it is since the menopause.

You have had more disturbed sleep you are saying. And what about getting to sleep. The time it takes you to get to sleep. When did you notice that?

When did that start? Probably in the last ten years I think. I haven’t really sort of analysed it.

So it was like a gradual onset?

It was a gradual onset yes and it is not because I have been particularly worrying about anything although of course we all know that once we start thinking about things that keeps us awake more than anything else. So I try very hard to shut up, shut off and forget anything that might be worrying me.

I have tried Nytol. I have tried the herbs. I have tried various things I think like that. But they made me feel a bit funny. The only thing I really like are the antihistamines.

So how long have you been taking antihistamines?

Quite a long time I should think about fifteen years on and off.

Okay how did you find they worked, how did you find out about it?

I think I can’t remember how I found out. I think I must have had some kind of allergy and had them and found that they worked. With the asthma maybe I had hay fever or something and somebody gave them. But obviously some antihistamines don’t make you feel drowsy but I obviously choose the ones that do.

Yes.

And I think the doctor once gave them to me because I occasionally one itches in all sorts of places and occasionally I think you get prescribed Piriton for that. So that might have been one of the times when it was prescribed.

But you didn’t find the Nytol worked for example. The herbal Nytol?

I didn’t like it. No I don’t know why I didn’t like it. I think may be it made me feel funny.

Feel funny the next day or when you took it?

Hm. I have tried Melatonin too, because melatonin is something if you travel a lot is supposed to be helpful.

Where you get that from?

You can only get it in America. Our Australian relations gave me some yes.

Did that work for you?

That wasn’t bad.

Because it doesn’t work for everybody?

Not as good a Piriton.

It sounds like you have tried a few things. Anything else, like lavender pillows or lavender?

I had a lavender pillow somebody gave me once, and I don’t know if it made much difference. I think pillows do make a lot of difference actually.

A hard pillow does stop you sleeping and also getting very hot at night. And with the menopause of course I got very hot and I still do get very hot and that is another reason why my husband and I don’t share a bedroom most of the time because I like the window wide open and he likes it shut.

Do you get hot in the night?

He gets cold. He is very thin and I am plump. So it works.

How long have you had separate beds?

Not all that long. We shared a double bed. We do occasionally. We do have a double bed together when the dog isn’t in the way.

But then you sleep better?

When I am with him?

When you are not with him?

I sleep better. I worry about waking him up. We are both quite light sleepers.

I have arthritis so that means I keep changing my position at night. And I also have asthma but that is under control with inhalers, except when I get a cold. Then it does keep me awake at night sometimes.

Does it cause you problems?

Otherwise I am fine and then I tend to wake up probably most hours, every hour and just look at the clock and turn over and go to sleep again. I have the dog with me, but he doesn’t interrupt me at all. I sometimes interrupt him. So he stirs and sighs.

Does he sleep on your bed then?

Yes he does. Yes. Yes. poodles are like that.

Here he comes on cue. Hello Toffee!

I am sure he would like to be on camera. So that is what I do. And then I would sleep on in the morning. I am not so good in the morning. But my husband comes in to get the dog about six and then takes him for a walk about seven. So that interrupts me and sometimes I turn the radio on and just listen. That sometimes sends me to sleep again.