There was quite a lot to read, and I think sometimes that can be off-putting because, you know, sometimes you haven’t got the time to go through all the pages. And you put it away and you think you’ll read it, you’ll read it, to the point when sometimes it becomes quite urgent, when you’re about to go or take part. So it would be nice to have it in a like condensed way, with like the summary, which I think would be better, instead of pages and pages of information which sometimes people don’t have the time to go through.

Sometimes a lot of writing and a lot of paperwork can be off-putting. If it was to the point, summarised, condensed, and pinpointed the exact points that are more important would be beneficial and it wouldn’t put people off taking part in these researches.

it’s, it’s the feedback at the end that is really important to the person, because you’ve taken part free of charge without any benefit to you except for that your health is okay – I mean financial benefit – then one would expect a result at least at the end of it, to tell them, you know, Thank you very much, you’ve taken part, and there’s nothing to worry about it’s, it’s a peace of mind that’s more important.

And it doesn’t take much really to —

No.

— do that.

No. I mean, I was, I think I was kind enough to them to take part in this and my time and everything, but that was the least they could do to feed back. I think feedback is more important, because that looks like you’ve taken part and, you know, that’s it – they’ve had what they wanted and that’s it, bye-bye, you know. That’s not good enough, you know.

Despite that, would you still take part in another trial if it was offered to you?

I would, I would.

And why’s that?

Because it’s of benefit to a lot of people.

Is that your main reason for wanting to take part, rather than any benefit to you personally?

Well, it, that matters as well, obviously. But, okay, if it’s benefited me, it’s benefited millions of other, other people and I’m doing good to the community. So I’m helping everyone else.

I think feedback is very important, that the person whos taking part knows all along what’s going on and things like that, and have communication. Because if there’s breakdown of communication, then it’s not going to help the person whos taking part, and they’re not going to encourage other people, and they’re not going to take part in it again. Because that’s very important I think, communication and feedback, most important two things.

And what did they tell you at that point? What was their explanation of what would be involved if you’d gone through with it?

Yes, they said that I’d have to go there, to the, to a particular hospital for a couple of hours at a time. And then it entailed a few blood tests and other tests, and some, a couple of, I think one full day and a half day, and things like that. So they did explain to me what it would involve, what, how much of my time and everything.

And would that have worried you, having to spend time going to appointments and so on?

Not really, because I was going to be taking my own leave to do all that. So because I have lots of leave, I was prepared to take my own leave and let them do the research.

So it would have had to be your unpaid time? Or your holiday time?

My holiday time, yes.

Which is okay if you’ve got plenty left.

Yes.

Yeah.

But if you haven’t, then obviously it’s something that, you know, not many people would do if they weren’t, you know, they were pushed financially, not to have the money that they usually have, because it’s not easy.

Did you actually ask your employers if you would have been able to do it on paid work time?

No, I didn’t, because I have a feeling that they would have not allowed me to, because they’d say that, Your work will suffer. And whos going to cover you and things like that. So that’s the thing. Because one’s not covered if – especially now I think it’s getting harder – that if you’re on leave or if you’re on sick leave, there’s no cover and you come back to a pile of things. So that’s, that’s thethat’s the bad side of it, I would say, yes.

And I don’t know if sometimes people can’t take part in it because of time. And if they’re committed and they’re working and they’ve got a full-time job, to take time off is not easy. And I think it would be nice if all these trials are a bit flexible, in that they try, I mean they do these kind of tests at weekends and evenings. Then there might be more people that would come forward, because during the day when people are working they’re committed and it’s difficult for them to take time off.

What do you think about paying people to take part in trials? Obviously with the kind of the Northwick Park* ones, that’s different.

Yes.

But in these kind of routine healthcare kind of trials, what do you feel?

I think more people would take part if they were paid for these trials. Sometimes it might not be possible for the trial organisation to pay them, because of funding or whatever. But I think more people would take part if they were paid for what they were taking part in, because it is, it is, I mean, their commitment. And if they’re taking part, I think if they’re not paid, it’s nice of the people to give their time. Whereas if they were paid, there would be more people that would take part in it, because at least they would get some kind of token for what they’re doing. So it’s, it’s important, really. But as I said, sometimes the funding gets in the way. And it’s, it’s not the person whos doing the research, it’s not their fault. It’s somewhere else where the problem lies, but they might have to face the music.

I think also there are sometimes ethical issues about paying people, and whether then people are going to feel kind of pressured into taking part because there’s money attached to it.

Well, it’s not, it’s not a binding on anyone. It’s their own choice. So I think if they’re getting paid it’s not, it’s not really putting pressure on them. It’s their choice. It’s, you’re not, you’re not being forced to do something against your wishes. So it’s not, it’s not something that they’re forced to do. So it’s their choice.

* FOOTNOTE’ The interviewer is referring to a Phase 1 trial at a commercial research unit based at Northwick Park Hospital in 2006 when 6 healthy volunteers became extremely ill. ‘First-time-in-humans’ studies are carried out precisely because we need to find out about possible risks and side effects before giving the treatment more widely. Most of the people we talked to took part in trials of treatments which had already been tested in humans before.

A copy of the Inquiry Report of this incident can be downloaded from the Department of Health website’

http//www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_063117

Did you ever think about dropping out? Because that’s quite a long time, several years.

No, not really. I thought, If I’ve taken part I might as well finish it Yeah, no point in going halfway and then pulling out, because the research would probably flop. So no point. I think if one is to take part in anything, they should go all the way instead of leaving it halfway, because I don’t believe in unfinished business. I think you have to go to the root cause of everything, and sometimes that might get in the way. I think that’s how I am. I like to finish the things properly, not leave you in the lurch halfway.

I read a paper, and in it had an article if anybody wanted to take part in a trial, and I thought, I don’t min, because I was told by my consultant that there was, my – as I’m diabetic, my cholesterol levels should be lower than a normal person, and that I might have to be put on a medication called statin. And so I thought it would be a good thing to find out whether it would benefit me as well as anybody else.

So what did it say in the, in the thing in the newspaper about what the trial was looking for?

Well, they just said that there was a trial for cholesterol, and if anybody was to take part, to ring in, which I did. And I was to have my bloods done, and it depended on my bloods if that’s what they were looking for, the level that they wanted for the trial. And I said, Yes, I would be intereste and I did have my bloods done. Good for me that my blood, my cholesterol level was not that high, but it wasn’t what they were looking for. So I did not have to go any further. But I was ready to take part. But it wasn’t for what they were looking for.

Were you disappointed by that?

Well, in a way I was disappointed. Not from the point of view of my health, because that was good for me, but from their point of view, that I couldn’t be of any help.