If you could give somebody, anybody any advice, about strategies, helping you get to sleep or keeping asleep or what to do if they wake up. What kind of things would you suggest? What would be helpful?

All the things that I don’t do. Seriously. You know, like having just lately I have not been eating until about, it could be eightish, maybe later. A lot of that is to do with going to visit my Mother at lunchtimes. So I don’t get lunch so then I come home and possibly have lunch round about half two which is too late really. So that makes my dinner time in the evening further back. So I don’t think any of that helps. And then I sit down and stay sitting down and I know it’s all the things you shouldn’t do. I am sure I should get up and go for a walk somewhere. But in the summer it is different I have got to admit until it is dark I potter and I sit on the patio and I read and I see something and I will get up and go oh I will pull it up. Back and forth like a ditherer but I quite enjoy it.

So if I said to you if you could give some advice to other people who are having problems like you sleeping, what kind of advice would you give? Have you got any strategies or anything you could give to people and say I recommend this to you?

Well it depends really what problems they have got. Whether they are diabetic or not. Or what I could say that if are diabetic all you could do is you take your medication, stick with that, be aware of these hypo things, the bad times they are. Make sure you know how to deal with it you know, your doctor will tell you what to do and that sort of thing. And make sure you have always got something handy to take, especially if you go out, you know, you should always have a disc on you. I haven’t got one but I will get one. Always take some sugar with you or something, because like I say if anybody comes across you and you are collapsed in the street, they don’t know whether you are drunk or what unless you have got that disc on and if you are working with people make sure that they are aware that you are a diabetic so that they know what to do to help you at that time. You know. If you make sure they know you have got some sugar with you or something or you can get an injection you carry something for an injection and make sure these people know how to administer it, you know. It is quite difficult really for people at work to do that for you. But if you only see a lot of friends they would wouldn’t they.

Yes.

As for being in the street, well it is anybody’s luck isn’t it. The only thing is they might whip you into an ambulance and they would be able to tell. The ambulance people would know you hadn’t been drinking, so they would know what it was. I have got a book on there all about hypos.

But also if I can’t sleep I have one or two devices to help myself sleep.

What are they?

I try a quick relaxation formula, which is you know, tensing yourself quite steeply to begin with just for a few seconds and then relaxing and moving every movable part of your body that is possible. You know, I would even waggle my ears if I could. Eyelids and facial muscles and mouth. Everything, you just do a quick relax in other words, all your joints, and then take some deep breaths afterwards and that quite often makes me go to sleep.

Oh I will have to try that. I have not tried that.

A quick relaxation and the other system is counting down, have you heard of that one.

No. Do you start at a number?

I start from number twenty and then I gradually count down and then I go 20, and then 19, 18, I make each number two syllables and an intake of breath and then expel of breath, down to if you do it very slowly and regularly and you go down to say zero and say zero a few times then you can go into minus one if you want.

If you are still awake?

And that, I don’t know how long ago I first found that method. And when I first started it I had to work at it for about a month before it seemed to work. And then after that it worked.

That is interesting. So it wasn’t a quick fix for you, it took a while for you?

No it took quite a time and I had to keep on doing it, before suddenly it worked. I don’t know why that was. About a month nbsp;

So you wake up and do you try and get back to sleep straight away?

No, the minute I wake up, I get out of bed, go to the loo, which is often, if I don’t need to I will still go. I will have a drink perhaps and I thoroughly wake myself up actually, because I will not go and lie in or sit up in bed and try and pretend to sleep if I can’t.

So you are choosing to wake yourself up?

Yes. Well it is a strategy as far as I am concerned because I find that then actually I will get into a better mode of sleep and I will go back and I do go back but sometimes it takes very long and sometimes it takesI just know when I am ready to get back into bed. It is difficult to describe it.

Does it vary then from night to night?

Yes. It can vary.

What is the shortest time it takes you, and what is the longest?

I would say the shortest probably, out of bed, have a drink, probably put the television on, and see what is on. And if it is boring it will send me off to sleep in about fifteen minutes.

That’s very interesting because you may have had this experience, things seem dramatic and terrible at night, you wake up in the morning and think oh I can cope with that.

Yes, what was all that about?

Yes. You actually do.

And you have these arguments in your head with people and you wake up in the morning and you think well what would be the point of that really, why did I make a mountain out of a molehill?

Absolutely and that’s this same situation, with emotional ups and downs that we’ve all been through. We all go through. And I think there’s nothing, absolutely nothing you can do about it. it’s gone, it’s finished, you did your best at the time and that’s it. And it’s taken a long time, it just doesn’t happen you have to think about it. Make sure that you don’t get worked up about stuff.

Do you think you’ve reached that point now then?

No, not totally, not totally. That’s why I have incredibly boring books to read.

it’s a really good strategy that. When did you find that out that that worked?

Oh not so long ago, although yes, come to think about it, some time ago, about just three years ago. My brother died and that caused a lot of emotional stress. And it was driving me bananas thinking to myself what can I do with all of this, because as I said there’s nothing else you can do, once he’s gone he’s gone and I know I’ll get a book and unfortunately I have got an extremely interesting book which led me to read the whole book in one sitting. So I never slept at all.

You just stayed up at night and read the book?

Yes. I got through it and had a thoroughly miserable day. Dragging through the next day. So I thought no, the thing is to get yourself really boring books. But I’m very, very lucky because he died having left a huge amount of books, most of them history and actually they are quite interesting but some are very, very boring. So I find the boring ones, really boring books.

Yes, in a sense I am experimenting because of my recent history. I am experimenting in, by going to bed early. 10 oclock being early, and late one oclock to see if there’s a difference.

There really isn’t but the constant factor is waking up. Again, we might discuss later on, I think there’s a reason for that. It might or might not be, I am not a sleep man. Waking up like last night for example, I went to bed relatively early and I generally don’t have too much problem getting to sleep because my technique for getting to sleep is to think about interesting problems, not about world problems or personal problems, but I am making a boat trailer for example and where I want the bearings of the wheels and that sort of thing. And I play the game and just thinking interesting things, which I am inventing things, making things. I must make things. I usually make them badly, but I would rather make something badly then not make it, not being able to make things would be hell on earth.

But therefore I can usually go to sleep fairly quickly, but generally speaking I wake up after probably about an hour, or I can sit in here in the afternoon and I could go to sleep. Yesterday I thought it was ten past two and when I looked at the clock and then I looked up and oh my gosh someone is coming at two oclock but it wasn’t it was about quarter to nine. I had just sat down to drink a cup of coffee and I didn’t know where I was.

And are there any kind of drinks you avoid with the thought of sleep in mind?

Well I wouldn’t have full on coffee. I have got some quite good stuff called dandelion coffee. I have it occasionally but that’s meant to be absolutely fine for night. I don’t really like what is the other kind.

The decaffeinated?

The decaffeinated no.

Is that just a night time thing or day do you avoid drinking caffeinated coffee?

No. I don’t drink much coffee, but I do drink ordinary coffee, just ordinary instant coffee in the day but at night I would either have the decaf or this dandelion but it is very, very rare that I have coffee at night. I drink a lot of tea at about between five and six.

So when you are having your evening meal?

After I have had my evening meal then I have a cup of tea.

Do you avoid things like alcohol and coffee and tea at all or

No I don’t and I wonder whether I ought to but then we have our evening meal which is our main meal of the day at about 6 in the evening. And we certainly have wine, we don’t mind having wine, and sometimes if we have company, we will open another bottle, not so much if, when we have company we’ll open another bottle and that knocks me out and I imagine I snore then. Almost certainly, but not, I’ve forgotten what the question is.

You eat early in the evening but would you avoid eating later in the evening?

If I could yes. Because the tummy is working too hard at that time.

And then alcohol is something that fits in, but then what about coffee and tea?

Well we will have a cup of coffee somewhere at about 7.30.

Okay.

And that would be the last drink we have. But I think that’s probably too late for the way the bladder works.

This is the thing as I said to you before about sleep, I take it as just something you do, you get, and so therefore I must admit I don’t avoid things. No I don’t think so.

And you wouldn’t worry about eating late at night, that wouldn’t worry you?

it’s an interesting point because I don’t, I wouldn’t eat really late at night, now that is something I wouldn’t do, so you can say that is one thing, but it was interesting when I was talking to our practice nurse. I don’t know how it came out in conversation but she was saying it doesn’t matter if you eat in the evening. She was talking about if you had your meal later than we do that sort of thing.

You eat about five is that right?

Pardon?

Do you have your meal 5 ish your main meal?

Yes, well six say, before six. But she was saying it didn’t matter if we ate later and things like eating fruit or something I don’t eat those in the evening, ‘oh yes you can. I always thought, no, it doesn’t digest and that would keep you awake. But she said no, so I take her word.

Now this is something that I don’t know whether I am doing right or wrong because I think sitting here in the evening, I think, oh I fancy something. I wonder what’s nice. You know. If there is a box of chocolates open I will dive into that or if I have bought a new type of cereal, I think oh I won’t wait until tomorrow I will have some now. It doesn’t matter, I will have some now. And my friend that I ring every morning she says well of course that is comfort eating you know, and I am thinking well what do I need comforting about. I don’t need comforting so why am I eating, but apparently that is what it is called.

So if you have something to eat in the evening, is that long before you go to bed?

Oh yes it is before I go to bed. I don’t take anything to bed with me to eat.

You said you might occasionally have a biscuit if you have been up for a long time in the night?

Yes, yes, if I come down or have a drink and a biscuit or I make a piece of toast or
Because do you feel hungry?

That is right. Yes.

You can’t sleep when you are hungry can you?

No, no.