I mean, does it feel strange to you in some way to be so young yourself and to have all this responsibility?

It did at first. I was a bit overwhelmed at first, because I thought to myself, ‘I’ve got her now for eighteen years or longer’, do you know what I mean? ‘But I’m going to have to look after her. She, shes going to depend on me now for the rest of her life, and am I going to be able to cope with this and things like that?’ And that, that’s, I think that’s what upset me the most, the thought that, I was thinking to myself, ‘Am I going to be a bad mum? And theres people going to judge me because I’m so young and having a baby and things like that. But now it doesn’t bother me because I’ve done it for six months now. I’ve got like the rest of her life to do it, I’m trying my hardest and that’s all I can do. I can only do it to the best of my ability.

As most, as most girls probably fret saying, ‘Oh, no, I can’t, I can’t do it. I’m scared and I need help off everyone. You can only do what you can do to the best of your ability. If you, if you feel like you can’t do it, then you can’t do it. But theres no such word as can’t. You’ve got to have a try, do you know what I mean? And that’s what my mum was telling me, ‘Theres no such word as can’t, so don’t be saying you can’t do it. Try. Try and change a nappy, try and make the bottle, do you know what I mean? But, as my mum said, ‘You should know. I should know all this anyway because I used to babysit for my mate and she, I was babysitting from when the twins were my age, the twins were our baby’s age. So I had to change their bums and do their nappies. But to me that was different because they weren’t mine.

They weren’t my responsibility 24/7, they were hers. I’d only mind them now and again, like if she needed to go somewhere like to do shopping or something, I’d mind them. But to me she, shes my responsibility. It’s now 24/7 I’ve got her. But I wouldn’t change her for the world. I would not change her for the world.

And since then things have changed at home. I’m more happier and I love my daughter to bits. But the children’s social worker came out on the Friday saw her a few times. [Mitchell’s] mum was here cos she needed to be here to support me and [Mitchell]. And my support worker was here. And, and what the outcome of that was from that Monday when, and the named midwife suggested that I need to have community midwives practically every day for the next few weeks. And it was the same community midwives who I had before, but different ones. I had the healthcare assistant, who would come out once or twice a week to help me or show me how to bath the baby.

And I felt more confident because I was out in the community again. And I didn’st feel pressurised, no, nothing. The midwives weren’st worried [which was good]. The children’s social worker suggested that I continue having these TAF meetings, which I said before was Team Around the Family. And we’sve only just recently had the last meeting of it a couple of weeks ago. And we’sre not having any more. So I don’st need to prove myself any more. Sure Start centre which has now been took over by [charity], are really really good. They help me. I go to Let’s Play on a Wednesday morning. I do a lot of things with my support worker and my daughter in the week. I’sve just recently started working at the weekend, to have a bit of time to myself, and [Mitchell] to see his daughter cos he works in the week quite a lot. And, and I think to myself that I don’st have to prove anything anymore [to anyone].

I think I was surprised how difficult breastfeeding was, because I’d assumed that that was the least of your worries and that once the birth was over it was sort of plain sailing after that. And of course one knows about sleepless nights, but no one had really told me that breastfeeding would be so difficult and I was quite shocked by that.

Tell me about that experience.

Well it was just very, very painful for me. Very painful in all respects and very difficult and that, that was, that was just quite a shock because I hadn’t anticipated that it would be so hard. And of course once you look into it, then you realise that it is quite difficult, and it is acknowledged to be quite difficult, and it is acknowledged as a skill that you have to learn. But going into it I had no idea about that. So perhaps that’s something that could be emphasised in the run up, but then you don’t want to put people off. Because once I’d started doing it I was determined that I would do it. And maybe if I’d known beforehand that it was going to be so hard I wouldn’t even ever started trying.

Can you just sort of talk me through, you know, when you first tried what went wrong and who tried to help you and so on?

When I first, I don’t thing I realised that anything was wrong for a couple of days. The baby was feeding perfectly well and he was putting on weight, so that was fine. As far as he was concerned everything was fine. But my problem was that it was very, very painful. I had a very a huge engorgement so that the actual breasts themselves were really painful. And sometimes I couldn’t have, even hold the baby to me because they were so painful. And the nipples were very sore and bleeding;

And it was just a very, very, very painful experience. So every time I knew it was feeding time I would tense up with pain because it was just going to be agony. And I just hadn’t anticipated that at all, so, but I contacted the La Leche League and they were absolutely brilliant, and the lady who ran it locally came round and she was wonderful and she really helped me;

What did she advise?

Well she, she sort of gave me some practical tips about positioning but she also was very sympathetic and said, ‘Yes it does hurt’ and, ‘I know it hurts’ and, ‘You’re doing a really good job to keep going and, ‘Well done and, ‘This is the right thing to do but I know it’s hard. And I’ve not, I can’t quite put my finger on what she did but somehow she was just very inspirational and very kind and very understanding, and she kind of got me through it. And the midwives also tried to help, so everybody tried and everybody understood.

Did you feel emotionally upset because it was difficult?

Mmm, yes, but I also felt emotionally determined to do it and quite pleased that I, that I was doing it and the fact that the baby was putting on weight was a reassurance that I felt that ultimately it was okay because it was getting into him and he was feeding happily himself. So I was upset that it wasn’t as easy and it wasn’t this beautiful picture of this lovely baby suckling beautifully and everything being fantastic. So that was a disappointment but I, I was determined to keep going.

Why did you decide to bottle-feed rather than breastfeed?

I did with both of my children because, I don’t know, I think probably because of my mum. Probably because she bottle-fed all of us and I think you sort of tend to go for, for what your mum does, basically. If, because, because I do quite a lot of stuff for SureStart now, if I’d have known what I know, if I’d known then what I know now then I probably would have breastfed, but I didn’t, so.

So at no point in the care you were receiving while you were pregnant from – were you seen by midwives while you were pregnant?

Yeah.

And did nobody ever give you, offer you any information about breastfeeding?

No, what they said was, the first interview that you get when you go in when you are, the 12 week, you know the 3 months and you get your first scan and you have all your bloods done and everything like that, that was the only, ever time anyone asked me, was I bottle or breastfeeding? And because I said, “Bottle, she said, “Okay, and that was it. Nobody ever asked me again, did I want to change my mind and breastfeed? Nothing.

If you reflect back now, I mean as you say, knowing what you know now, do you wish that somebody had sort of had a conversation with you and at least offered you the information?

Yeah, I do. I wish somebody had just sat down and given me the facts and the figures, and shown me that it’s, it’s easy. Because it didn’t look easy and no-one ever explained it to me, so I just never did it, but I would now because I know a lot more information about it. I know the benefits of it which I didn’t then, so no, nobody ever, as soon as I said, “I’ll bottle-feed, that was it.

Do you have a sense of why they just left it at that? I mean, do you think it was because they didn’t want to pressure you or because they just were..?

I just think they couldn’t be bothered. If said I would bottle, that was it. If you said you were breast, you’d probably got a lot more support. If I’d, I get the feeling that if I’d have said, “Oh, I’m going to breastfeed, then they’d have given me the in depth information about it, but because I said I was going to bottle, that was the last time anyone ever mentioned it to me. And when I had my children the first thing they did was to come in and put bottles down on the table, so that was it, no-one ever spoke to me about it.

Do you think that people sometimes put unrealistic expectations on themselves?

Mmm, yes, absolutely, absolutely and I think-

In what way?

Well, I think one just feels, you have this image that everything has to work just perfectly from the start, and if it doesn’t somehow it’s your fault, and theres this ideal that you’ll just have this baby beautifully at home and then you’ll pick it up and you’ll breastfeed serenely, and there is that image. I’m not sure where that comes from, but I felt that pressure a lot, and if I didn’t conform to this absolute ideal there was some sort of a failure. And I think that’s just so unfair and so unrealistic.

Where do you think that pressure comes from?

I’m not sure, but theres a pressure in society that somehow you have to do it in a certain way, and that if you’re not doing it in a the most natural way any kind of intervention is a sort of reduction in the sort of ideal. I don’t know where it comes from, actually. Because it doesn’t, it doesn’t actually come from health professionals, I don’t feel. I think they’re very supportive. I don’t think it necessarily comes from them. I think perhaps it just comes from oneself, that you just want to do everything right.

There was one particular instance, when the impact of having a ill son really impacted on my experience in hospital after having my daughter, was when in the middle of the night I was having real trouble feeding my daughter and real trouble getting her to sleep, one of the midwives in really quite a kind gesture, took her off to try and get her to sleep, but there was no way I could then lie down get sleep for myself. I was hopping off the bed with fear that she was taking her away and I know rationally that she wasn’t, her job was to help me.

[Mmm].

But having been there after having had my son in the same hospital, him having been taken away unexpectedly, much more quickly to the heart hospital than planned, and being left on my own without a baby I actually had a panic, I panicked, and had to sort of run crying to the midwife to get my baby back. Whether or not I was going to get any sleep, I didn’t care, I needed her in my sight. And the midwife was quite offended and said, ‘What, do you think I’m going to run off with her or something?’ And she wasn’t particularly harsh, but she was sort of ridiculing me for being panicked. And I don’t think she knew what had happened to me before, and she said, ‘Is this your first baby or something?’ And I was like, ‘No, it’s my second baby, but my, my first baby had really bad heart, heart problems and was separated from me very early and it’ – I don’t know whether I was even that articulate. I just sort of tried to explain why I was panicked and she sort of, I don’t think she really understood.

Did you breastfeed?

I didn’t breastfeed, no. I did try, time after time to begin with. Sometimes the milk doesn’t kick in when you’ve had an elective caesarean because you’ve had no natural labour, so by the time my milk came in I think was day, I can’t remember now, I think it was day three, by which time I had a starving child who was guzzling six bottles a day, and once you’ve started on the bottle, it’s very, very difficult to go backwards. However, my baby had expressed milk once a day.

Did they tell you before the elective caesarean that that might be an issue for breastfeeding?

I was not given any information about that on the possibilities of not producing enough milk having had an elective caesarean beforehand. On the other hand, I know it can happen to some people who give birth through natural labour, that the milk doesn’t always come through very quickly.

How did you feel about the fact that you weren’t able to breastfeed?

I was fine about the fact I couldn’t breastfeed. I had a happy child, she was eating, she was getting my milk once a day. That was all that was being produced, but she was getting what she needed. She was getting the hind milk and fore milk so that wasn’t a problem to me and I continued that for, I think, six to eight weeks before she went onto formula solidly and we had no problems at all;