I really, really miss it [breastfeeding], I miss it and I just hope that it came, how it came natural to me I just hope it came to all the women but then again you can't do that, it’s not up to us to make it come naturally to all women. And so when [lactation consultant] told me about this breastfeeding course that she was going to do, at first I, she didn't explain it to me exactly what this course was for me, she said, 'Oh it'll be a course about breastfeeding, you know, experience in breastfeeding and explain to us' and 'What you talking about? You like, you know, talking about breastfeeding to other people' I thought, 'I don't think so' you know I was like that with her, but as we got into the course and we learnt what we're going to do, and then after the course what we were going to do, when we learnt that, I felt that, I felt oh I'm glad I did this course because there were so many mums out there that have been having problems breastfeeding, some sort of support they will need which I didn't have, I didn't even need that support but I was thinking just in case I did need that support with my first one and there was no such thing out here, how was I going to manage some, so I'm, I was really glad when I did this course, and now I do that supporting and support all the mums, new mums.

This is a Peer Counsellor Course?

Peer Counselling yeah, and I really feel very proud of myself that I've done this course because I might, I have supported so many mums but I might not have received the perfect answer that I want off them, like thinking, 'Oh I'm glad you, you did this for us, I'm glad' I know it’s going to be a bit while that I do get that answer, but even talking to them mums I've realised that from their expression on their face I've realised that I've eased their problems, you know, 'cause theres just a recent mum that I went to visit with [lactation consultant], and she was having, she had sore nipples, and she was having so much pain, the baby had thrush in the mouth, she had thrush as well, and, and, when I used to go with [lactation consultant] and I used to take my little one with me as well because she was home and, and I saw the mum just, she just was cheerful because she was, even though she was in so much pain just looking at me coming with [lactation consultant] she was so, just so cheerful. And I used to say to her, 'You know, if you're so determined you will make it, don't lose hope, you will make it' and we always, there can be problems theres no, theres no way that can like, you know, not every woman can have it how they want it there can be problems but if you're so determined to give the best your baby and you won't, you don't lose hope you'll get there and she used to think, you know, and then she used to come to baby caf' with, after visiting her home, the following week she'd come baby caf' and she'd used to even talk to me and, every time I told her everything, when she wanted a answer for her problem I used to tell her answer and I used to give some talk of my experience to her as well, and at the end of the talks I actually used to see a smile on her face. And even looking at her smile I used to feel proud of myself and yeah I am so glad that [lactation consultant] introduced me to this course and, I'm just, even little talks, if I'm not much help to the mums I'm just so happy that I'm glad there too, like even talk, give them talking support, even if I'm not giving them a physical support I'm giving them a talking support and I feel really proud of myself. To actually have some mums, actually asking me questions not like questions, like, 'What shall I do?' they said, 'What did you do with this?' you know, 'Did this happen to you? What did you do?' and I, like I say I just get carried away and I just blabber and blabber and tell them and they, and I just, even the thinking that I've

When you come home from hospital with a new baby do you have help in the home'

Yeah I have a.

'from relatives?

Like I say I have a very big family, and I, when I'm in the hospital and if with my first one it was just me in the hospital so they have, my family was having my husband, they were looking after my husband, his food and everything else otherwise it’s, I was okay, but when I had my son and my husband was looking after my daughter but half of the day he'll have her and half of the day my sister or my sister-laws will have her, and they will look after her and when I get back from hospital and, they will take her away, they'll take her away for two or three days and they'll have her for two or three days and then we just me and my new baby and my husband and even the, food wise they'll have the food brought over from them too for me and my husband, for a, at least a week I'm looked after, and then I've, they probably want to look after me more which I always say, 'No, no we'll do it', you know, 'we'll do, actually fit and well' but I said, 'no I'll get on my feet' I found working away, you know [laughs], well what with no choice, you know, especially when you've got others to look after, you know, you have to like carry on as if it’s normal, you know, and we start doing what we supposed to be doing you know washing and cleaning and cleaning and cooking and, yeah non-stop jobs.

Did you have a certain period when you didn't go out of the house?

Well, well it’s, it’s not in my religion, it’s not in my religion that I have to stay in the house for that long, theres no way in any books is written that we read that, it says that you, when you have had your baby you can't go out, well, they say that if back home the older’s, they say that, you know, it’s best if you stay in the house until you are bleeding, because after you've had your baby it’s like until forty days some women are, you, well forty days is the most but some women stop within forty days, but they say it’s best if you stay in the house, look after yourself, look after your health, and it’s, it’s far best really. But theres nowhere, anywhere written to say that it in Islam, you know, for forty days you can't go out it’s against our religion it’s nowhere written like that. But if I, as I say, if I had my babies back home and I would have my in-laws or my family, my extended family looking after me I wouldn't be going out, definitely I'll stay in for forty days, I'm looking after myself, but because we're in this country and we have to be independent on our own self, because my husband is a full time worker and, and if I had children to drop to school I couldn't depend on my family all the time because which, they have their children as well, so I can't, I know they'll be ready to help which they always do and it’s like I can't depend on them all the time, I can't just throw everything on them thinking, 'Oh here yeah you do it now because I can't go out', it can't be like that so, you have no choice, and it’s like, I'd say a week like I said a week they'll even do the outside jobs for me, but then after that I have to do it myself, or my husband have to do it. So it’s like the, it’s just, so theres nowhere that, if it would written, if it was written in some way I think in Islam like we have then we're like we helping out each other, thinking that, 'Oh for forty days you can't go out, you can't do this, we'll sort everything out' they, what, because it’s not written in any way it’s like, you can, you can do what you need to do you can carry on, but if you stay in it’s for the best, you know, for yourself to look after make, you know, health wise you look after your own self it’s best for you. I mean theres nobody'

I did with my first one as well, second one as well, I fed him as well, and actually when my son was born I was feeding my daughter, my first daughter as well because she was only one so I felt as if I was breastfeeding two, but even at that time I felt as if that was my duty, she needs this, this is providing for her naturally and she needs it, and I need to give it to her, you know, it was just so natural I wasn't thinking at all, it’s going to be so hard for me, hes breastfeeding and, that, only, it’s like I had no, I don't know why I just didn't think, I was just thinking I was like doing the right duty mother to them. And I was actually, felt as if I was breastfeeding two twins because she was.

So just tell me how you worked that, logistically'

Yeah.

'did you feed one and then the other or both at the same time?

They were both at the same time, because I had my son in my lap feeding him from one breast and she wasn't walking at that time because she was only one and thirteen days old, and I'm talking about the day I got back from hospital, and she was, the difference between them was one year and fourteen days at that time, so as soon as I got into the house, my husband brought me home from hospital, and he settled me down and everything and he said, 'I think hes ready for a feed' and I said, 'Yeah' so I put him on and she crawled up to me and she said to, I said to her like, 'Do you want dudu?' because I thought maybe I've gone to hospital shes forgotten it all, and she started nodding her head and saying, in my language, 'Yes, yes', so I was like, I was like trying to fumble, fumble with my top to get her to the other breast and she just like helped me as well, and lifted my top up as well and, she was actually holding on to the settee and, and clinging on, was standing up and clinging on to my, one of my other breasts and just taking it off there, she was just taking, sucking it off my other breast while my son was like on my, arm, was on my arm on this other breast.

So she was desperate?

Yeah she was like, yeah she was just, and I, and even at that time I didn't, I felt proud that, 'Oh look shes, even until now shes one and I thought maybe shes forgotten but shes still breastfeeding off me' and I felt so proud but, still it was just that, it’s what they, what I'm meant to be doing for them, that’s how I felt all the time.

So what happened to your milk supply in that time? Obviously you were feeding her before you went in what, once or twice a day?

Yeah I was, when I got back from hospital and well like I said, I fed her straightaway and that then I had the midwife come in to see my son and examine him and then I had the health visitor coming in and they were asking me like how am I doing with the breastfeeding? I said, 'Well I'm doing fine' I had no problems whatsoever as well, but when I told her that I was breastfeeding my daughter as well who’s one, and they let me do it until, until my son was two weeks old, and they said I have to stop, that I had no choice because there won't be enough for him then. Because shes a growing child, and she was taking most of the feed, most of the milk, and it’s going to take a time to produce again and she was saying that and then he, probably ready for his feed at about, say about two and half hours later, and they'll be having, you'll be having difficulty all that but they were saying it’s entirely up to me what I wanted to do but it’s best for him because he needed it more at that time, and she was a growing child, she was taking most of it, so they were, they were persuading me to stop as soon as

So when, when I was that was when I were, my daughter she was nine months then, I was breastfeeding her then so she had to, she was on my breast as they were actually all the family was struggling to look after her till like, you know, say that I'm in the hospital or anything, she wasn't speaking much as well but then again she, the same as others, she was eating what they were feeding and everything, and I was in the hospital so I, they induced me and everything, they got rid of everything what they needed to do and it was about twelve, twelve centimetres baby, a little tiny one and they, and then they took me upstairs in the ward and I had a midwife come up to me, she says to me, 'Have you got milk coming through?' and I said, 'Yeah I have' because I was, 'Yeah' I said, 'Yes I have' I didn't say much to her, she says to me, 'Well we have this medicine we can give you to dry up your milk' and I looked at her, and I said to her, 'Oh, oh, why?' you know, 'I don't want to dry up my milk' she said, 'Well, well it’s no good to you is it? Because you haven't got a baby' and I says, 'Well I have a baby at home, nine months old that can breastfeed off me' and she says, 'Are you sure?' I said, 'Yeah I'm still breastfeeding her, when I go into the hospital and this happened I was still breastfeeding I hadn't gone off it yet, she hadn't gone off it yet and I was deciding, I hadn't known that this was going to happen to me I was thinking of deciding well near to my, end of my pregnancy I was deciding to stop her, if it, if I could but since this has happened shes still breastfeeding off me' and she, she was giving me these looks like, thinking, you know, 'What rubbish are you talking about?' or something like that, I said, 'Well no I'm sorry I don't want to take these tablets I'm' and I was glad I didn't take them because when I got back from hospital two days later and my baby was ready for that milk, and she was taking off me perfectly and, and she was nine months then and I went for a holiday after that, after the miscarriage I was, my husband took me away on a holiday to get, you know, give me some time to myself and she was a year old then, and she was still breastfeeding. And when I got back, when I went home, back home to my in-laws and they, they said to her, you know, like, 'You be, give yourself some time and that' and so they'd started giving her cow’s milk inside a cup and she took to it, and they were feeding her, looking after her, all three of them she, they were looking after and I didn't know where they were and they treated me like a queen, I was there, and that’s how it happened with her so I was thinking, with that, when I had that miscarriage they were actually wanting to dry my milk up, I'm glad I didn't take that, maybe at that time it probably would, but then again I'm thinking, 'If I did take it' and when with my fourth one, what if I didn't produce any milk what if that, had that infection or, you know, affected it in some way and I was dried up for completely or something, so I was glad I didn't take that medicine from the hospitals, and that’s when they wanted [laughs] wanted to give me that medicine when I had that miscarriage and they're thinking that I, that milk was no good to me.

Where do your babies sleep, do they sleep with you in your bed?

Well with that, my first one she had a basket to sleep in, so if she was, if she was in it at night time, before she goes to bed she has her last feed, may, she does wake up for a feed I used to take her out the Moses basket and sleep her with me on the bed, and feed her while I was sleeping. And if I wasn't comfortable, now and then I never used to be comfortable, so I used to lift, sit up and feed her, clean her and put her back in the basket, but if I was like lying down, I used take her in my bed, feed her, but sometime we both used to drop off, sleeping, which I know it was dangerous to do about that time for, 'cause there was only her I used to like, just actually feed, leave her there you know and she, if shes ready for another feed we wake up and we have another feed in bed again until morning, but most of the time it was like that with my first one, but with my, others, I used to actually feed them, clean them, put 'em back in a basket, Moses basket or cradle, or whatever I had for them and I used to put them away, then they, go back sleep in my own bed and they, they cried again I used to feed them again, that’s what I was doing with all of them but the first one I used to like, 'cause I was so tired and they don't know what to do with them and everythings like, so feed her, leave her in my bed with me and then wake up for the next feed and it was like that but with the others I used to like sort of feed 'em and put 'em back in, whatever I've provided for them to sleep in, yeah.